Announcer: 0:04

Welcome to the Creative College Journey podcast, the place to help raise awareness on the many pathways to a creative life and education and how college might be a part of it, because it's not where you go to school, but how you go to school that counts. Hosted by professional, creative, and college expert Scott Barnhart, who is chatting with a variety of guests who have some amazing lived experiences from different universities, majors and creative industry interests. And we hope by hearing their stories, it might help give you some inspiration to find your own creative college journey.

Scott Barnhardt: 0:46

I am so excited to have this conversation today with a former student of mine and someone I simply adore. Alyssa Carroll is a performing artist originally from Orange County, California. She grew up dancing, singing, and acting, and eventually attended the Orange County School of the Arts to study musical theater from seventh through 12th grade where she discovered a deeper sense of her artistry and the cathartic nature of performing. And it's there that I got to meet her and be her conservatory director for her junior and senior year. She is currently completing her last semester at the University of Michigan in their BFA musical theater program. Remotely from New York City so that she could join the original cast as a swing of the Broadway production of Andrew Lloyd Webber's brand new musical Bad Cinderella, covering like 1800 tracks. And she triumphantly made her Broadway debut just last week during previews on March 9th. Very, very exciting. And at the University of Michigan, she was featured in productions of the House of Bernarda Alba, Hair, michael McElroy's sonnets, Soliloquies and Soul, the Wild Party. And she made her professional debut as the Female Swing in the Ogunquit Playhouse staging of the Nutty Professor. And at OCSA she played charity in Sweet Charity Olive. In the 25th annual Putnam County Spelling Bee was in the ensembles of OCSA's Productions of Jasper in Deadland and Footloose. And I am personally indebted to her as she saved my booty on numerous occasions as an assistant choreographer with Emily Baggerly on an epic production we did of Evita.. Which was not for the faint of heart, uh, On a personal note, Alyssa is a light in this world and a ferocious, quadruple threat. She's an actress, a dancer, a singer, and a maker. She is a wonderful example of leading with love of an art form and practicing that abundant mindset at every turn of the creative process. And while in many ways, Alyssa is living what from the outside looks to be a Broadway" Cinderella story", I'm so excited for her to share her personal journey to this moment, to highlight the fact that the road to Broadway is rarely glamorous or picture book perfect, but that this journey is often a deeply satisfying, valuable, and artistically illuminating process. And with that, we welcome to the podcast Alyssa Carroll.

Alyssa Carol: 2:59

Hi. Thank you for those lovely words that really warmed my soul. Thank you, Scott

Scott Barnhardt: 3:04

Um, Alyssa, I'm so grateful you took some time. I know this is a busy week. You're about to open officially Bad Cinderella So exciting. so give us a quick update of where you are right now. How you're doing in like, actually, how are you doing?

Alyssa Carol: 3:21

I am good. It's been a rollercoaster few months. I mean, moving here is a crazy transition. I moved from Ann Arbor Michigan. I went home for Christmas and then I flew immediately here the day after Christmas and started rehearsals the next day, So I haven't really had any downtime, but it's been a whirlwind of emotions, ups and downs, both. But I'm still reeling from last week, the most magical day up, up to this point in my life. and just feeling really grateful to be on this journey and grateful to have the love that surrounds me. Yeah, and I'm good. You know, the, the job is hard. It's a hard job. You said I cover nine tracks. Um,

Scott Barnhardt: 4:00

it's not 1800. It's, it's nine, but basically the same thing.

Alyssa Carol: 4:04

same thing. So, you know, it, it is, it is tedious and it is rigorous and my brain sometimes feels like it wants to explode, but for the experience of what happened last Thursday, it made all of the work worth it. And it made everything leading up to this point worth it all, all the work, all the college auditions, all the, everything led up to that that day. I mean, I've been dreaming of it since I could walk basically, and so it was magic.

Scott Barnhardt: 4:32

Uh, that's so exciting. Alyssa, and for those who don't know, a swing is someone in a Broadway show or, or a national tour? A musical. It's an, it's an offstage cover. It's someone who learns multiple tracks within a show, a musical, and can go on for any one of those. At the drop of a hat. Um, so you are literally, especially during these covid days you are the insurance policy that the show can in fact go on. So it is particularly technical and rigorous work that you're learning all of the details of these tracks so that you know, in the event that someone can't perform for whatever reason, the show can go on because of you. So that's, you're, you're a superhero.

Alyssa Carol: 5:16

It was cra. I mean, I will say it was literally my Broadway debut, and I would say 80% of the show I had never done before on the stage.

Scott Barnhardt: 5:24

That's why, I mean, and truly most swings, especially in previews, you probably, if I were to guess, you probably rehearsed 20% of the time of the person who's been in that track this entire time. Which is wild and you still have to do it at an exceptional level.

Alyssa Carol: 5:44

Yeah. Nuts. I I, I sit in my dressing room sometimes and I'm like, they're asking me to do what? But no, but it, it, it, it, it feels really cool when you actually do the impossible, they seemingly impossible. You get to the end and you get to bows and you're like, I just did that no rehearsal, and I made it out. and, and you are the reason that the, that people were able to sit and watch the show tonight. That is cool.

Scott Barnhardt: 6:07

amazing. Okay. I can't wait to get dig into this even, even further. Um, I do wanna ask, I'm asking everyone, how do you identify creatively? Because I know you, you grew up in the musical theater landscape, but like what makes up the artist that is Alyssa Carroll?

Alyssa Carol: 6:22

I'm gonna go way back, and kind of talk about how I kind of got into this whole thing, kind of goes back to a, a, a very dramatic story that ends really beautifully. but when I was about six years old, I was basically barely a human. And, um, my brother was diagnosed terminal with ALL leukemia. and. We, my entire family moved to Seattle. Um, my brother had to get a bone marrow transplant. It was a miraculous, miraculous recovery. Um, and he was there for about six months and I was kind of along for the ride. Um, we lived in the Ronald McDonald house. We did the whole thing. he was in the hospital every day. and I was also kind of in the hospital every day. but the thing that stuck out to me was the music specialist from the hospital would come door to door to all the, all the cancer patients and sing to them. And that was where I saw that performing and music specifically can be so incredibly healing. And the connection and, and the visceral connection that happens between exchanging through the arts can literally be a game changer. I saw, I saw him light up immediately. And then, so in the hospital he also became drawn to this musical side. and so he started exploring writing music. He eventually made it out of remission. is now, now in 2023. We are here 10 plus years, cancer free. and he is like one of my life heroes for sure. Um, I looked, look up to him for everything, but he started writing music. After that I was six and I was kind of in the background, kind of watching him recover, watching him heal and, and supporting that journey, but also watching him start to cultivate his own artistry. And then I kind of caught on and we got home. We moved back home to California. and I begged my mom for singing lessons. I begged her because I saw my brother get singing lessons and I was like, no, I wanna do that too. And so I did. And at the beginning, tone deaf so bad, so bad. But I, there was something in me that had to do that because I had seen it come to fruition in such a powerful way. And so I kept at it. And I think, to answer your question, what I'm reminding myself every time I perform, or every time I am lucky enough to share my own artistry, it is about more than myself. Because it can't be just for yourself, especially in a world where we are. disconnected from the world with our cell phones and whatever technology we have, the importance of connection and actually seeing each other and listening and hearing each other in real time is so important to me. And also a big part of it is nature and kind of the, the metaphysical aspect of the, the arts, because it is transcendent, it is ethereal in this very tactile way. You feel it. And that's why we fill seats every night. And that's why we need music. That's why we, we, we crave it because it makes us feel something. And so, yeah, for me it's about connection. It's about community and it's about bringing people together. And it's also about learning. More about the world and, and, and learning more about each other. And it's about empathy. Cuz the more we learn about each other, the more we can understand each other. So I can write a novel on that, but there's the short answer.

Scott Barnhardt: 9:53

Oh, I love that. That was the short answer. Um, you were like, I, it wasn't just like I sing and dance. No, it's so much deeper. It's so much deeper than that. And, and, it's, it's one of the, one of the many reasons I just, I adore you cuz at this young age, you seem to see a bird's eye view of this, path that I, I, I would dare to say I don't know that many your age necessarily, share that vision. I, I think, I think you have a, a remarkable vantage point, for, for what you're seeing and, and how you're walking through the world. Okay. I'd love to hop into the college chat. So this is the creative college journey. this is specifically talking to people who are about to graduate or have recently graduated, from college who have gone through this process, talking to people who are about to go through the process. Either parents, students, teachers, counselors, people who just want some more context of like, what can happen. And sometimes we just need to hear the stories to know what can happen. So, you know, you, Alyssa, have led quite the quote unquote idyllic path, right? You've, you've, you've walked the dream path. You went to, uh, or continue to go to the University of Michigan. Which is a renowned musical theater program, highly competitive, and you landed a Broadway show before you graduated, so you're, you're in some like hallowed grounds, but we both know how it looks on the outside, doesn't necessarily match how it feels on the inside or how to get there. So I'd love for you to give our listeners some insight on this. Let's go back to junior year high school, Alyssa. And I would love for you to tell us a little bit about your decision making process of approaching college. Like where did you apply, how many programs, what kinds of programs, and maybe what sort of led you to the University of Michigan?

Alyssa Carol: 11:50

Yeah, I mean, from, from the time that I started osha, I knew I was going to study musical theater. And so that's kind of the easy route for me is that I knew exactly what I wanted. And so my net that I cast was musical theater schools. my decision making process in terms of like creating the list, I started that with like 30 schools. I mean, I probably started with like every school that offered a musical theater program ever.

Scott Barnhardt: 12:15

And I was there. It was just, it was, it was about that long. If I'm, if I'm not mistaken, just a sensible list of like 285

Alyssa Carol: 12:24

Right, right, right. Which impossible by the way. and so as I started narrowing it down, it really was for me, I am really passionate about my academic growth as well as, as becoming, um, master in musical theater. But, um, for me, as I started to narrow down, I was really looking at schools that had a phenomenally strong musical theater component, but also balanced with a phenomenally strong academic component as well. Um, because I knew I wanted to be challenged in both ways. that being said, I applied to some conservatory schools at, at some point. It's like, you can't be too specific. you also have to cast sort of a wider net. Now I narrowed it down to 14 schools. a lot of, a handful of them. Highly competitive, a handful of them, moderately competitive, and then a handful of them, that were a little bit sitting more in my like, comfort zone, you know what I mean? and for that, that, that kind of gave me some stability in the fact that even if I, no matter what, I'm not just putting all of my eggs in the highly competitive basket because at that point it's not just about talent. They're looking at like individual people. yeah, you're not just riding on the top five musical theater programs in the country. Um, which doesn't matter, because what ultimately is the best thing is going to be how you match with the school because you're not just auditioning for them, you're also auditioning the school. Um, and the most important part of this whole college audition journey is that you fit into a program that that benefits you in the best way. yeah, so that was kind of how our, how I narrowed it down. 14 was a really awesome number. it gave me a wide enough net and enough options, but it also wasn't too crazy overwhelming with the traveling with the, well, I mean, it was overwhelming with the money that was, that was probably. the most difficult aspect of, of this all because you're flying, you're spending money on hotels, there's application feeds, there's, there's everything. but it wasn't too overwhelming in terms of like scheduling.

Scott Barnhardt: 15:40

Yeah. Yeah. And it seems like 14, especially in considering the amount of highly competitive schools that were on your list in that it, it felt like a, I remember it feeling like a, a very balanced experience. And it is sort of interesting how, how much has changed even since you applied to college, that there's a newer understanding of access. Meaning flying to campuses isn't as mandatory as it was when you applied. and there are more, uh, self-tape options. There are more virtual submission options that I do see schools in a beautiful way removing some of the, um, barriers to. Especially in musical theater, which is great. I'd love to see more of it, frankly. But, even just reflecting from when you went through it versus where it is now. But we're gonna, we're gonna talk finance too, because we can't have this conversation about college without talking about, um, the financial implications and the, the talks of privilege that comes with that. so you went through the audition process. You landed at, like, again, and, and I, I say this because it does feel a little hyperbolic. You landed at the school that feels like you got the golden ticket, right? You were like in Willy Wonka, you got the golden ticket. I'm going to Michigan. How were you able to sort of quiet the noise and the hoopla about going to a school like this? You also had some really amazing options. What was it about Michigan that made you say, yes, that's where I want to go and this is what is gonna benefit me? Or did you sort of follow the hype and just leap towards that accordingly.

Alyssa Carol: 17:27

I mean, there's, there's hype for sure, and that hype is really thrilling and exciting and it draws you in. And, and you know, I was definitely taken by that. Absolutely. Um, and like the, the jazz hands surrounding it. Um, but the more that I studied it and, and I will say, until I got in, I had never actually took, taken a deep dive into Michigan. I mean, I knew, I knew the rapport, like I knew the alumni, I knew that their school pumps out Broadway, Like it really,

Scott Barnhardt: 18:00

High caliber talent. High. Yeah, absolutely. A lot of working professionals. Absolutely.

Alyssa Carol: 18:05

Right? And that was what got me. And then, and then I got in and I was, I was immediately going to say yes. And then it was like, wait, I do love this program, but there's a lot that I don't know either. And so as I did more research, it was the fact that it, it is a, a public university, meaning that the academic classes that I have the opportunity to take. Extensive. And that really excited me. the other aspect was the dance element of it. And I had an opportunity to choose between a school where I would just mainly study acting and then a school where I would be able to study musical theater. And as somebody who also has an enormous passion for acting, it's something that I hope to do hopefully after this job and hopefully into the future. I was really intrigued by that. But dance has always been something that has fueled my soul for my whole life. And without that, I would not be me, not to be dramatic, but without dance. I am not. I am not myself. And so it was the dance faculty and the dancers that I had talked to that were in the program because once you're accepted, you kind of get to like, Chit chat with the students. And, um, everyone was super honest with me, you know what I mean? Um, because it's a big, it's a big decision. And, the dance portion, Michigan also has a really strong acting program and acting program within the musical theater department. Vince Cardinal, shout out,

Scott Barnhardt: 19:41

Hey, Vince

Alyssa Carol: 19:42

I still text him so much. he is one of the most phenomenal acting teachers I've ever had in my whole life. and just phenomenal human being. but the community, it's the community. And it's not just because Michigan has the ideal community, it's because it's the community that I gravitated towards as an individual. and, and that goes to be said that yes, I, I was very fortunate with my options, but even though, Some of my other options. Were at the same level as Michigan. I fit in with the community at Michigan more so it's not necessarily best school in the country, whatever. It's what's gonna fuel your soul and in the community that feels like you're going to thrive in. and so the minute that I stepped on campus and I talked to everybody and I immersed myself in the community, I was like, oh, this is it. This is where I belong. This is where I'm gonna thrive. This is where I need to be,

Scott Barnhardt: 20:41

Yep. And that is when we know it's a match. And I think that's when you're looking for the quote unquote best school, it's the school that matches and no school is perfect, no institution has it all dialed in, but it is about finding those matches. And I, I just, even as you were talking about that, I was like, I can't even imagine, given the fact that the end of your freshman year in the bulk of your sophomore year was, um, Amidst covid and the pandemic and, virtual learning. I'm just imagining you surviving that without dance. And I, I actually knowing you well enough, I actually can't imagine that, which I then goes back to like those choices before you move into a space really, really matter. The idea that you knew dance was integral to your health, to your wellbeing, to your identity, is really, is really telling.

Alyssa Carol: 21:37

right.

Scott Barnhardt: 21:38

Alyssa, I'm curious, did you, because of the academic options at a place like University of Michigan, Did you take it on any concentrations or did you lean towards particular classes that really sort of inspired you or have informed your musical theater path?

Alyssa Carol: 21:55

Yeah. I think something that's really important to me, just as an artist, not specifically in musical theater, but to become a, to become a well-rounded artist, you also need to learn about the world, because they go hand in hand. And so I really wanted to also explore the world outside of musical theater so that I could better the musical theater artist actor in me. I was really excited by a lot of the courses I, I had the opportunity to take. I took a class my junior year, it was during Covid, it was virtual, but it was called Dancing women's slash dancing queer. And it was taught by one of the associate professors of the dance department, but it counted as a humanities course. And basically the whole, we were studying like sort of like the metaphysical world of dance and also the boundaries that we can start to break when we release the expectations around what dance is and what dance has been. Because really what we're dealing with is dance is not a defined thing. It can't be because dance is movement and movement is happening everywhere. And so that's where I kind of found my voice choreographically with how I connect with nature and the world around me and energy. And my mom is super into the metaphysical world and is a chakra healer. And so I have developed a lot of, a lot of that from her. Um, but by the end of the semester I ended up writing and making a film that was centered around the idea that everything that exists in the universe is actually simultaneous choreography because everything that we do affects something else. And we are all in constant impact with each other. And so everything that exists is energy and everything that exists is kind of doing this universal dance together. And so I kind of made a little movie that was about that I like dubbed over some like Pink Floyd lyrics. and I, I was home at the time and had actually literally Emily Bagley filming me dancing, like on the beach and so that was a really actually pivotal moment for me as an artist and how I engage with dance. And also it actually changed how I would get up and perform in class and perform on stage because I was thinking about things in a different way. And that was from an academic course.

Scott Barnhardt: 24:41

Yes.

Alyssa Carol: 24:42

I was able to intertwine the academic aspect of that class with who I am as an artist. And that was like the coolest ever

Scott Barnhardt: 24:51

Which is, is a dance in and of itself because dance is movement and things move, things shift, things change. Ugh.

Alyssa Carol: 24:59

right?

Scott Barnhardt: 25:00

I love this, I love

Alyssa Carol: 25:02

Yeah.

Scott Barnhardt: 25:03

And I do. That's where I'm, I'm a huge fan of the curiosity piece for any artist, any creative is, what are you curious about? It, it, rarely matters if it's helpful to your industry pathway, right? So long as you're naturally curious about it and you are seeking further growth and, um, knowledge and then reapplying it, like cyclically reapplying it, uh, and then you're just continually grow. No matter where, no matter where you are, whether you feel stuck, whether you feel on top of the world, like you're continually growing, okay, so I think a lot of these listeners, I think, would aspire to be where you are right now, Alyssa, um, you landed at some really competitive programs. You've been training, you're, you're finding your path in the industry already at such a young age. curious, as you went through the gauntlet, which is the musical theater audition process, How do you think you were prepared for this? Like what do you, do you have any sort of insight about what it was that helped you, I don't even wanna say stand out, but helped you be seen in those rooms? Was it your material? Was it the mindset? Was it skill level? Like do you have any sense of what sort of helped you beat the odds?

Alyssa Carol: 26:27

I mean, to start off, I have to start here because I had some of the most incredible mentors to have actually you, Scott, and also Jessica Lea Patty, obviously. Um, who is the reason why I'm here doing this Broadway show? Sh i I, I will say it, I'll take that to the grave. Um, I would not be here without you or her So I, I, I think latch on to those people who are there to lift you up, latch on if, if there are people in your life who are constantly supporting you or if there are people that you look up to, reach out and latch onto those people because that's your support system right there. Um, and so I feel incredibly lucky to have had that underneath me. in terms of going into these auditions. It's scary. It can feel pivotal. It can feel like the end of the war, like it can feel so dramatic. But truly the thing that I held onto was just to share what you are passionate about. Because really at the end of the day, that's all it is. It's about who you are as a human being and what you have to offer. And if you love it, they're gonna see that Like they know. They know when somebody walks in there and this is all that they've ever aspired to do. I also like wore jeans in a blazer, Like, I

Scott Barnhardt: 27:53

sure you did. Of course you did.

Alyssa Carol: 27:54

I looked like nobody else too. And, and I think that's just a testament to not caring about pleasing somebody, just staying true to yourself. And I'm not saying wear jeans and a blazer, I'm saying wear something that feels like you and feel special to you and unique to you. Because, because, and, and it's so silly because it's just what you're wearing, but it's like I walked in differently because of what I put on my body.

Scott Barnhardt: 28:21

Yeah,

Alyssa Carol: 28:22

Um, because

Scott Barnhardt: 28:23

deliberate. A deliberate decision.

Alyssa Carol: 28:26

Yes. and I didn't really have like a grounding practice, but I did, I put my headphones in and I like wasn't getting lost in like the neurosis. The waiting room because it is, it is a, there's so much energy and everybody is like emanating energy

Scott Barnhardt: 28:46

Yes.

Alyssa Carol: 28:47

you, you feel it and it, it's contagious. And so to have something that helps you kind of take a breath before you walk in, I don't know if it's a mantra. We made, Scott, we made those cartoon character drawings.

Scott Barnhardt: 29:04

Yeah. Your, your genius, your your little genius.

Alyssa Carol: 29:08

yes. And we had these drawings that we drew and mine was like a little penguin and I put it in my audition book and I looked at it. I swear, I swear to God, I looked at it before I walked in every, every audition. And it's just something that that makes you feel like really what we get to do in audition rooms. We are so lucky we get to share a little tiny bit of ourselves. with a stranger and whether they like it or not. Oh, well, because the truth is, is that if you come in with your own authentic self and you share what you're passionate about, if, if they don't like it, then that's not the fit for you.

Scott Barnhardt: 29:46

Yeah, that's not a match.

Alyssa Carol: 29:48

yes, and, and you don't wanna be at a place that's not going to cultivate your most authentic self. and so I also sang songs that I loved to sing, and, um, because you sing them a lot, you really do sing them so much. Um, and so pick something that you're passionate about, that you love to sing. monologues, pick something that you love doing. I had a phenomenal monologue coach. yeah. And so, I mean, I was incredibly privileged with the people that I had around me. but know that you have it within yourself. You, you have the authority and the agency to share what feels most you. So that was really what got me through. And, and, and that quieted the noise because you'll hear from everywhere. You'll hear opinions from everywhere.

Scott Barnhardt: 30:38

Yep. All those chat board opinions, all those, all that, and it gets really. really hot, like it hot to the touch like people, because people, I think, and this is the part that I'm so adamant about talking about, and I feel like part of your success is your actual understanding of this. Even though it feels like this is a life or death decision, that your entire career is riding on this line, on this audition. The fact is it's not. It's just not. But, and you have to counteract that, um, what I would call a fight or flight response. That this is a really high stakes game. It, it's actually a much lower stakes game than people realize. And I love that you put your earbuds in to sort of quiet that noise. I love that. The genius drawing that the little, the little penguin, little cartoon penguin that represents your sort of superhero skills and your essence. That's our job. Our job is to bring that little cartoon penguin into the room, that spirit, that essence, and if they like your cartoon penguin, sweet, awesome. If they don't, you love it. So you take it back and you head on to the next one and you find the space that works.

Alyssa Carol: 31:53

And I tell myself this at work because you know what I, I performed on a Broadway stage and I messed up so much. I mean, not so much, but I messed up things and I was

Scott Barnhardt: 32:02

made errors. Yeah.

Alyssa Carol: 32:04

Because it was the first time I ever run it. I was like, and in my head I was like, Alyssa, why aren't you perfect? It's like, why would I be perfect? I've never done it before. And so I was in my head a lot and like, I have this mantra because musical theater, It's, it's magical and it's so powerful. At the end of the day, we're putting on costumes and we're performing a story for an audience. It cannot be that drama. It is just like what we do is imperfect. and nothing is linear. Nothing is linear. Um, and even in this, in this industry too, it doesn't stop at college auditions. Once you get into the real world, there are like crazy ups and downs, and things that feel like the, the end of the world and, and they're not. Um, because the journey is not linear, it, it will go everywhere before it goes up. You know what I mean?

Scott Barnhardt: 32:55

That's so, so true. Well, to that point, I think it's really interesting. I think a lot of students sort of struggle between this want of a professional career and how college actually helps on that and how college isn't really involved in that piece of it. And I think it was interesting, you know, Barring any like things that limited us during the pandemic. You were certainly seeking professional opportunities throughout your college career, which I think is interesting that you were very adamant about auditioning for things, putting yourself out there, looking for summer stock gigs. how did you sort of balance that piece of this, of being sort of professionally driven and professionally and industry minded while still being, you know, an academic student,

Alyssa Carol: 33:45

It's a lot. I will say college was probably the time in my life where I slept the least,

Scott Barnhardt: 33:52

and you went to OCSA that's saying something

Alyssa Carol: 33:55

right? It is a hectic four years, but it was, it's the best four years of your life. Like it's, and so balance was something that I was very bad at in college, I think because I was so driven. It was like career, career, career, career. My mom tells me this, my solar plexus, my yellow chakra, which is the chakra that, um, that represents your career and your drive.

Scott Barnhardt: 34:19

Yeah,

Alyssa Carol: 34:19

That it's the brightest, it's the brightest one, and it's taking over everything else, and she's right. And she's right. And so. I was determined. And so with like, I mean, and it is something, the drive of being in this industry is something that I think just comes with the gig. You know what I mean? Like it is, it just, it comes with it. And so submitting for open calls, submitting for things, submitting for summer stock, I was doing all of it. I was doing all of it on top of a, an academic day, on top of four hours of rehearsal after that day. Um, and then on the weekends we would have summer stock auditions.

Scott Barnhardt: 34:55

Yeah.

Alyssa Carol: 34:56

it's a lot to juggle and it's a l it, but however, I know people that, that were not auditioning for things in college either. and I had no intentions of leaving college. I was like, I will be here till the end. I had, I, I was very much somebody that was, that didn't agree with the idea of leaving college. Like I, I was really determined to stay. but I had some friends who were just, ha were just focusing on college for, for all four years. And that is so fair because the industry will always be here. It will always be here. Um, there is no rush. I think I honestly, the reason I'm here is because I reached out to somebody that I had worked with um, at school and asked if she was working on anything over the summer, the summer after my junior year, I literally just sent her an email and was like, are you working on anything? I would love to, I would genuinely, genuinely love this woman and, and would do anything for her. And I just wanted to be in a room with her and learn from her. And so I sent her an email and asked if she. Was working on anything over the summer. Um, I told her I'd work for free. I was like, I just, I just wanna learn from you. I really do, genuinely. And, um, she reached out and sent my info to the casting director and, and, and, um, that's how I ended up booking a gun, quits the Nutty Professor, which I did the summer after my junior year. That's a testament to just, just reaching out because of sheer genuine appreciation for somebody's body of work. The worst thing that they can say is no, or just, or maybe they don't respond. And you know what? That's okay.

Scott Barnhardt: 36:31

Yeah.

Alyssa Carol: 36:32

On to the next, like, you know, and, and, that's something that I've learned is that your community and the people that are around you are going to be ultimately the people that get you work.

Scott Barnhardt: 36:43

this is a career of connections. This is a career of networking and not networking in the slimy way, but networking in. I am a fan of your work. And I, and I love that idea of sending a note to someone stating a want or stating a hope, but also releasing of expectation, right? Like, if they don't respond, I'll be fine. If they say, no, I'll I'll be fine. If they say yes, I'll be fine. Like this is, this is releasing the expectation, but seeking the connection and that, that is, I think, a secret to success in this particular field, maybe in many fields, but particularly in this one of musical theater.

Alyssa Carol: 37:24

It's all about community.

Scott Barnhardt: 37:26

Yeah.

Alyssa Carol: 37:26

Cultivating that.

Scott Barnhardt: 37:28

When I've got students that I'm working with and their lists are feeling a little myopic or, or single focused, I invite a tool into the room and I call it the agent of chaos. And we play, pretend this idea of, okay. This degree or these five schools are off the table. We're just gonna, for this exercise, they're off the table. And if talent, money, or time or expertise weren't a factor, what would you love to study? Where would you love to study? Like, and it, it becomes, it should feel a little mischievous. It should feel a little like from, like, it can be as simple as, I really love animals, so I hate science, but I'd love to work with animals. I'd love to be a vet. Or, you know, I just, I really love the colors of UCLA. It can be as simple or as superficial as that, but I'm always very curious, like, what's your agent of chaos? If musical theater were off the table, these BFAs were off the table, what would you study? And maybe.

Alyssa Carol: 38:36

I've always loved psychology. I am like in awe of the way our brains work

Scott Barnhardt: 38:43

Yeah,

Alyssa Carol: 38:44

and why people do things and, and why we act certain ways and, and, and where our emotions come from. And that's probably the actor in me.

Scott Barnhardt: 38:52

totally.

Alyssa Carol: 38:54

I w there is another life where I am studying psychology also. I don't know where but I, I, I think I, I think I genuinely would've gone into psychology or I, oh God, I'm so bad. I'm so, I'm so bad at writing. Well, I wouldn't say I'm so bad at writing, but it's not something that I'm particularly as gifted at. But I would've loved to do something like in literature. Something in creative writing like poetry, something, something in that world. So you've got sci science and literature and, and and English.

Scott Barnhardt: 39:29

Yeah, so it's like literally the bookends of theater literally the bookends of acting. And I love it. And this, I, I always ask these questions to, you know, even 17, 18 year olds, because it can sometimes just break up that really single track focus and it may actually inform why we're after that single track. And may actually like, then it's like maybe you go to a program that is adjacent to a really great psych program.

Alyssa Carol: 39:58

exactly. And I also think the, the way I talk about literature and psychology are also studying that would make, makes me a better artist.

Scott Barnhardt: 40:06

Yes.

Alyssa Carol: 40:07

That is cool. And I also know people that have gone to school for things like that have gone to school for completely things that have nothing to do with theater and then end up working in theater or working in the arts or working. And so it, it it all, it all coexist. None of these things are separate from each other.

Scott Barnhardt: 40:25

Entirely. You know, I love one of your cast members, and I use this example all the time, a because I'm like the biggest fanboy of Carolee. Carmelo, like utter

Alyssa Carol: 40:35

You and me both babe. You and me both.

Scott Barnhardt: 40:37

her in the original, uh, production of Parade, like out outrageously talented and, and fun fact, she got her bachelor's in accounting from SUNY Albany. And I, I don't know anything about why or how. And at some point when I'm in New York, I'm gonna, we're gonna have a convo with Carolee Carmelo about her undergraduate degree cuz I'm obsessed with the fact that she has a bachelor's in accounting from SUNY Albany. I,

Alyssa Carol: 41:08

I had no

Scott Barnhardt: 41:08

much and has traversed this, this, um, career. And it just goes back to, I think when you're at that audition, this is not the only path to this career.

Alyssa Carol: 41:20

Right.

Scott Barnhardt: 41:21

And a musical theater degree can easily transfer to any other industry sector like, so it's not a stop or start point. It is actually just one step towards whatever your journey may be.

Alyssa Carol: 41:36

right. Oh my, well, our, our leading lady Lindi, I, I have to fact check this exactly, but Lindi started in banking. Like she was, she was commuting to, she was commuting like two hours to her banking job. And then one, like was not happy. One day went to the open call to On Your Feet!, booked it, booked the ensemble Gloria cover, and now she's Cinderella on Broadway.

Scott Barnhardt: 42:03

Yeah. And, and that's, that, is it, it's like the degree is not the prerequisite. What is, is persistence, resilience, and adaptability. That's the prerequisite for this career. If that's what you're, if you're after this career, those are actually what you need. it actually has nothing to do with the degree.

Alyssa Carol: 42:21

right.

Scott Barnhardt: 42:22

okay, I'd love to talk, I think it's really important if we're talking about college and access, it's important to talk finances. And I, I'm asking everyone, I'm interviewing, did you overspend, did you underspend or do you feel like you got it just right and sort of how, like, explain in terms of that situation for you?

Alyssa Carol: 42:42

I was very happy with what I did. I do feel like. I feel like we overestimated how much we needed to spend. I flew to a lot of on-campus auditions that I didn't need to.

Scott Barnhardt: 42:57

Yeah.

Alyssa Carol: 42:57

If, if you can get them all done in unified or virtually now, they, and I've talked, I've actually talked to my professors. They can tell so much through Zoom. That's something that they learned. they can capture your essence through a screen.

Scott Barnhardt: 43:12

Yeah.

Alyssa Carol: 43:12

and so I was, I, I, I really thought it was necessary to fly. I, I think, I was really happy that I flew to Michigan to do my own campus. I flew to so many schools to do an on-campus audition, and that is, it's so completely unnecessary. Um, and so in that realm, I feel like I overspent there. In terms of Michigan, um, after I got in, I wa yes, I was awarded, scholarship money, which is phenomenal. And in that way, that made it feasible for my family. I'm, I'm in a very privileged spot. My family is privileged enough to have paid for me to go to college. that is not something that everybody has the option to do. however, what I do know is that that is a conversation that every program head is willing to have

Scott Barnhardt: 44:01

Yeah.

Alyssa Carol: 44:01

because they want you, you were accepted into the program, and once you're accepted into the program, they wanna make it work. Now, whether or not they're able to make it work okay, but however it's worth having a conversation about because they do wanna fight for you. They want you there, um, or else they wouldn't have accepted you into the program. and so that is something, that asking for what you need is so important as well.

Scott Barnhardt: 44:26

And to the same point of view, it, you also have to release the expectation. they may, if they aren't able to meet you where you need to go, then consider your other options. I, I don't know any school that's worth stretching, into a dangerous financial zone. I don't know any degree that's worth that financial risk.

Alyssa Carol: 44:46

right,

Scott Barnhardt: 44:47

Interesting. and how, how wonderful. Again, I'm, I'm always applauding however it happens if students are able to leave college debt free without the loans, for an artist for a creative, it truly does make all the difference in terms of having agency and choice to then take on jobs. Now, granted, you're in a very fortunate position where you landed a Broadway contract, but, you know, truth be told, knock on wood, I hope this lasts for decades, but we also know shows open and close, so you don't actually know how long this contract may last. And the ability to ride the feast and famine financial aspects of our industry is huge. And having, being as lean financially as possible is a huge component of that.

Alyssa Carol: 45:39

It is so hard. It's so, especially New York City is so expensive.

Scott Barnhardt: 45:43

Yeah.

Alyssa Carol: 45:44

It is crazy. and I think for me, I have, I have been really diligent about how much money I save I know, I, I like there, there's no way of telling. where your next job comes from. There's, there's, you can't expect or predict anything. and that's what's so hard. That's what's so hard. So I've been very diligent about saving. but I, I, I think that's kind of the only thing you can do and just be, be really frugal and really decisive about where your money goes. I, I've, I have like a saving spreadsheet. I have a budget spreadsheet. I have, you know, I'm doing the things, I'm doing the adult things.

Scott Barnhardt: 46:17

Yes. Alyssa Carol! Yes.

Alyssa Carol: 46:19

and so that, that is all something that has really helped. However, New York City, again, so expensive.

Scott Barnhardt: 46:27

She's not cheap. She's not cheap,

Alyssa Carol: 46:29

she's not cheap. She's not cheap.

Scott Barnhardt: 46:32

But it's, it's knowing that if you can, and it is possible, If you can give yourself that cushion, that ability to support yourself through this, and that's through side hustles, that's through the jobs you get and saving accordingly, building out your spreadsheets, really being cognizant of your money. The flip side is, it's, it's like the life hack to being a better auditioner because you don't walk into a Broadway audition desperate for the job, and desperation is the quickest way to get cut. I, I would, I will put money on it. If you are desperate for the job, you're then no longer a collaborator. You're actually just a latch on. And artists need collaborators. So you need to be as, uh, self-sufficient as you can be to then walk into the room with a sense of abundance of being like, I'll be fine if you don't hire me, but I would love to do this job.

Alyssa Carol: 47:30

Yeah. And I think that's what got me here because I was like, lada, I'm still in college. I'm just gonna go to this Broadway audition. And like it didn't have so much weight to it,

Scott Barnhardt: 47:45

Yeah,

Alyssa Carol: 47:46

and I kind of just went in and did my thing. And I didn't put any expectation or any sort of,

Scott Barnhardt: 47:52

pressure.

Alyssa Carol: 47:54

yeah, I didn't put any pressure on. and then, so it just kind of came out naturally. And I, I, that was honestly probably the best audition I've ever done because I was just, I just showed up and shared myself. And,

Scott Barnhardt: 48:11

The little penguin came into the room and Andrew Lloyd Webber was like, yeah, I want that penguin in this show.

Alyssa Carol: 48:16

It was really just like play. It was playtime.

Scott Barnhardt: 48:18

And it's, it's interesting. I think you're a great example of there's a duality to this. There's there clearly you are dedicated and driven and ambitious. To get to where you are right now. Right? There's, there's something that's driving you, it's that yellow chakra that your mom was talking about that's like moving you forward. But conversely, I think you really do understand that this has to have a sense of play. That this can't be so serious, even though it's a decisive driver in your life. And I think the fact that you're, you're dancing with it, going back to your metaphor, the fact that you're dancing with those two things now, I would, I would dare to say that's a real testament to your early success.

Alyssa Carol: 49:06

Thank you. That's cool. That's really cool.

Scott Barnhardt: 49:09

So good on you. For those spreadsheets. Keep it up, kid

Alyssa Carol: 49:12

Thank you. Oof.

Scott Barnhardt: 49:13

Okay. This is a story I just want to hear from you firsthand. The, the late Great Anne Ranking who is a Broadway film dance legend. now you've studied with some amazing mentors. Jessica Lee, Patty, Chrissy, Whitehead, Alexis, Cara. Hey ladies, we love you.

Alyssa Carol: 49:34

we love you.

Scott Barnhardt: 49:36

They were your mentors, right? Anne Ranking was a mentor to them, either through Broadway Theater Project in Florida or the Fosse tours. and all of them are sort of connected to Bob Fosse and, his legacy. And I, I, I'm so intrigued by like the fascinating like dance ancestry that you are, you're definitively a part of. And I would love to sort of hear, I know there was a moment. During the height of the pandemic, on Zoom where you got the chance to dance for Anne before she passed. I mean,

Alyssa Carol: 50:14

Yeah. I think it was probably like, when was that? Like September? I think she passed in November.

Scott Barnhardt: 50:20

Yeah, I would love to hear, again, knowing your mentors who are connected to Anne and the fact that you, you got like legitimate connective moment with, with the late great and ranking. I would just love to hear your experience of that, of that day, of that story.

Alyssa Carol: 50:37

Oh my gosh. Well, first of all, I was supposed to have class, I was supposed to have Zoom, sophomore Performance during the time that Christina Alexis had announced that they were doing a masterclass on Zoom with Anne Ranking. And I almost was like, mark Madama, I was like, mark, I, I was, I almost was like, I can't go to class. Almost, almost accepted it because I, I was like, I can't, I can't miss class. That's, you know, wasn't meant to be. the night before the masterclass, we get an email that software performance is canceled. For what reason? I have no idea.

Scott Barnhardt: 51:16

Doesn't matter. You were

Alyssa Carol: 51:18

I literally, I went online, I signed up, I texted Christy Alexis, and I was like, I'm coming. And like the, it was like the stars had aligned. And so I got on Zoom, I was in one of the dance rooms in, at, at in Michigan. And um, there she is, it was one of those things where I wasn't even nervous because it was just like, what a thrilling opportunity to learn from a legend. Anyway, we start learning the combo. It's um, I wanna be a dancing man from, Fosse, from dancing, and. she has us all do it in our li tiny little zoom boxes. And we finish the combo and she watches it and suddenly she goes, um, she like says like Chrissy and Alexis's name. And then I think like Ty Diorio was in there. And then the fourth name she calls was mine out of like a hundred something people. And I was like, surely she must be mistaken. Surely there's no possible way. And I looked and I was like, there's no other Alyssa. and she was like, I wanna see these four do it. Everybody watched these four. Okay, so now, Now I'm now I'm peeing myself now. Now I'm nervous.

Scott Barnhardt: 52:31

Game changer.

Alyssa Carol: 52:32

it comes. Yeah. I'm like, oh God, don't, don't forget it. Don't you dare forget it. Ever. Everything has led up to this moment anyway. All four of us do it. And, you know, she's clapping, she's saying, great job, whatever. I'm like, I immediately, and Jessica Patty was in the class observing the class and I texted her immediately and I was like, I was like, you saw, like, I didn't dream that right. Anyway, like 15 minutes pass by and she calls my name again and she's like, there's a part where there's like a flick sort of movement, and it comes right at the end and she keeps picking on me. She keeps calling out my name and she took 15 minutes with me in front of the entire class. until I got this one, probably like five second section. Right. She was so lovely. She was so genuine and so just passionately wanted me to get it right and she wouldn't stop until I got it. I got it. Perfect. Anyway, the class finishes. I FaceTime Jess immediately. We have a moment because I don't move the way that I do without Jess Patty. She, she taught, she's taught me everything I know. and so to have her see her influence on me get recognized by one of her mentor, it was like serendipitous in the way that it all. It was so, it was a life changing moment for me. so that, that was magic. That was magic, life altering. And I'm so emotional to have Jess there, to have Chrissy there, to have Alexis there. and then to have had the opportunity to work with her before she passed it. It was like, that is something I will never, never, ever forget.

Scott Barnhardt: 54:12

nor should you. It. It's a, it's a really special moment. I, I'm, I will likely link to your Instagram post on that because I think it's, it's a really cool moment to see, cuz when it's over and you come to, to the screen and you're like, looking at Anne, looking at you, you're, you can literally see that. I don't know that you're in the room. I don't know that you're in the building.

Alyssa Carol: 54:37

Terror.

Scott Barnhardt: 54:38

there's like, it's like bliss and terror. It's, it's a, it's a, it's a beautiful, beautiful example of like, your nervous system was going berserk,

Alyssa Carol: 54:49

berserk and relief that I didn't forget it. I didn't forget the combo

Scott Barnhardt: 54:52

Yeah. Oh my God. Great. Thank you for that. This is so fun. All right. Um, last, last question and, and I ask everyone this cuz I, I love this the reflective and introspective aspect of the college admissions process. I really do think it's an opportunity to learn about yourself more so than about getting into a school. I think it's actually a great opportunity. So I'm curious, given what you know now, what's the one thing you wish you had understood better about the college application process before you started?

Alyssa Carol: 55:29

hmm. That is a really good question. I think there are two things. I think even though I had this idea of bringing my most authentic self into the room, I still, there was a part of me that wanted to please the people behind the table,

Scott Barnhardt: 55:46

Yeah.

Alyssa Carol: 55:48

and it's hard to release that. And I wish I could have released that a little more and had fun because although now in retrospect, four years later, can look at it and preach, bring your most authentic self. It's not that easy. It is really, really hard, especially at 18 years, to know yourself.

Scott Barnhardt: 56:09

Yeah.

Alyssa Carol: 56:09

I mean, I was all over the place. I was 18. But I do wish I could have just emphasized the idea of having fun cuz you're also 18

Scott Barnhardt: 56:21

Yeah.

Alyssa Carol: 56:21

or 17 or wherever you're at in this journey and, and you're young and, and it's fun. It should be fun because what we do, what we get to do, we are so lucky that what we get to do is for the most part fun. And yes, there are, there are turbulent aspects of it, but for the most part, we get to play pretend for a living. And also, this is something that I carried with me. This is the only opportunity that you will get to audition as yourself for like, for the role of yourself, Like in other instances you are auditioning for a role.

Scott Barnhardt: 56:58

Yeah, you're, you're

Alyssa Carol: 56:59

is one of the only times.

Scott Barnhardt: 57:00

to fit a track or to fit and you bring yourself to that. But this is all genuinely you. It is just you all day.

Alyssa Carol: 57:09

Yeah. And that's so exciting because that doesn't happen again. So I think that's to remember how special that is and, and, and what you can do with that.

Scott Barnhardt: 57:17

And I will say to, to your point, Alyssa, and I love this about you. that intention was there for you at 17 and 18, even though the, you know, as is often the case with 17 and 18 year olds, the execution maybe isn't fully there yet. So, but the fact that the intention of it was there from the get-go, it really does. It's a testament to you, um, and many of your mentors for having, instilled that search of it because, you know, the people pleasing thing as an artist, it never. Goes away entirely. But when and how You can replace it with the connection piece, with the, I don't want to please you, I want to connect with you. That really becomes, a way to have a sustainable life in this art form.

Alyssa Carol: 58:03

right. totally.

Scott Barnhardt: 58:04

Oh, Alyssa Carroll, you are a marvel, my friend. I'm so proud of you,

Alyssa Carol: 58:11

stop. Thank you. Thank you. And I, I mean, I've said it before. I'll say it again. I would not be here without you. So gratitude, gratitude, gratitude, times a million.

Scott Barnhardt: 58:21

right back at you cuz I'm just grateful to have been a part of the journey, you know, proud, truly doesn't begin to cover the feelings I have about you and this moment, and. And I said this on Facebook, but the feeling ultimately has very little to do with you being on Broadway per se because we know there's great skill and copious amounts of luck involved in in landing exactly where you are. But I really like looking at this momentous moment as a beautiful way to encapsulate the many reasons. Many of us feel so much pride for your journey thus far. Cuz this is about a dream realized. It's about the years of dedication, commitment, perseverance, adaptability, support and patience it took for you to get here. It's about good things coming to really freaking good people. It's about vulnerability of putting yourself out there, writing that email saying, Hey, I wanna work with you. It's about facing fear, it's about growth, seizing opportunities, and seeing the big picture along the way. And it's about technical excellence and artistic vision, and it's about loving what you do, even when it's hard as hell, loving it authentically and wholeheartedly. And ultimately it's about sharing kindness, clarity, humor, and light with the world. And that is you, Alyssa Carroll. I'm just so proud of you and can't wait to hug the hell outta you. When I see you the next time in I'm in New York.

Alyssa Carol: 59:34

You're the best. Thank you so much for having me.

Scott Barnhardt: 59:37

if people wanna get ahold of you and see what you are up to, how might they do that?

Alyssa Carol: 59:42

Instagram is a really cool way to follow me. It's at a Alyssa Carol. There's just an, it's my name, but there's an extra a in the beginning because Alyssa Carol was taken, so

Scott Barnhardt: 59:53

How dare they? How very dare they? and you can also catch her at the Imperial Theater in the Broadway production of Bad Cinderella. thank you, Alyssa. That's another interview episode of the Creative College Journey podcast. We hope this episode with Alyssa Carroll was beneficial to you and want to thank you for taking time outta your busy day to listen. if you are in need of some encouragement, guidance, and inspiration for your college journey and would like to work with me. Do not hesitate to reach out to our website, www.creativecollegejourney.com, to schedule a free no obligation. I swear it's no obligation. One hour consultation to find out the many ways that the creative College journey can help you on your path. You can also find me on Instagram at Scott Barnhardt. If you enjoy the show, please rate and review us on Apple Podcast. It helps others find us. And be sure to come back in the coming weeks for more discussions about creative college admissions, lowering the temperature on the process and the many industry pathways and transferrable skills that a creative education and life can offer. Don't forget, it's not where you go to school, but how you go to school. That counts. Thank you.