Welcome to the Creative College Journey podcast, the place to help raise awareness on the many pathways to a creative life and education and how college might be a part of it, because it's not where you go to school, but how you go to school that counts. Hosted by professional, creative, and college expert Scott Barnhardt, who is chatting with a variety of guests who have some amazing lived experiences from different universities, majors and creative industry interests. And we hope by hearing their stories, it might help give you some inspiration to find your own creative college journey.

when I started the idea of this podcast, this next guest was the first name that came to mind. Whose story that I find through academia is one that I hope everyone can hear, and I'm thrilled to have this conversation with him now, Adam Castrillon. He is a 2020 graduate of the Orange County School of the Arts in the musical theater Conservatory, and I had the privilege to be his director from his sophomore through senior years at OCSA. He is currently getting his BA in drama at University of California Irvine, by the way, of two years at Irvine Valley College. As of this recording, he is currently starring as man and chair at Vanguard University's production of the Drowsy Chaperone. Adam was born in New York, but raised here in California, and like any good New Yorker, he plans on Hightailing it back to NYC as soon as he finishes his degree, which he anticipates getting in the spring of 2024. During my time at OCSA, there was rarely a moment that he was not in some kind of production, including the Drowsy Chaperone, mystery of Edwin DRD nine to five Sweet Charity. He played Andy in Shayna Taub's as You Like it, and one, he was one of our incredible actors who is in our virtual production of Now. Here. This., that was shut down during the pandemic, but by mid-May we had produced basically a full length shot from quarantine film. On a personal note, Adam is a quintessential theater student. Follow his Instagram and you will find the most up to date and insightful and thorough opinions about what is current in the theater scene. Because not only is he an immensely talented performer, he also has one of the most in depth dramaturgical knowledge bases of anyone I know. And with that, we welcome to the podcast, Adam Castrillon. Hey Adam. Hello. Ah, it's so good to see you. I'm really excited to, to have this conversation with you today.

It's good to see you too. I'm happy to be here.

So let's just like hop into it. I'd love a quick update of where you are, how you're doing and maybe a little insight of how you currently identify creatively and how that relates to your life as a drama major at UCI.

Okay. Currently right now, like you said, I'm a drama major at eci. I'm in my third year, but I just transferred in, so it's technically my first year at the campus. creatively I'm in a hotspot right now and I feel very motivated. I feel very inspired, and that was following a long period of, of being in the doldrums for me. So I'm, I'm feel like I'm moving up the ladder, so to speak, and like I'm in a good place right now.

I love that. That's, that's, that's dreamy. That's the good stuff. I'd love to sort of talk about, you know, we're talking about college admissions and we're talking about the path, and I know yours has not necessarily been the traditional four year path, so I'd love to just sort of open it up and sort of hear what was your path, from senior year of high school into what sort of determined your decisions, what helped you with your decision making and the institutions that you've been to along the way?

So after graduating, obviously it was the pandemic era. I really wanted to go East Coast right away after school and enter into theater programs and get where I wanted to go as soon as possible. And that just wasn't in the cards for me at that time. especially with the beginning of quarantine and just with everything happening everywhere, all the time, And so, rather than going straight East coast, not that I would've anyway, cuz everything was closed. I went I went into, uh, I started online classes at Irvine Valley College, the community college. which ended up being a really fantastic decision because I was getting all of my GEs done for free from the comfort of my bedroom. and I know a lot of people who went right into university got hit with that tuition bill and were taking the same classes that I was and not being where they wanted to be. So I guess it was kind of the. That's thing to make out of the crappy situation that we were all in together. So, uh, as I was figured I'd get my priority straight, get those GEs out of the way, get on my way to just getting to a good place where I can get a degree, I started taking the theater classes at Irvine Valley College, and, um, I, I know I didn't wanna stay there forever. I still really wanted to go to a university and get a degree, um, if not for the program or the education, at least to make connections. higher education is important to me personally. So I knew that that's what I wanted to do, uh, and that going to Irvine Valley College was a stepping stone to getting into a university program. I was antsy, I was anxious, and I wanted to get out as soon as possible. So after my first year only, um, I started applying to other schools to transfer, which ended up being not a mistake, not a regret, but, maybe a little, Impulsive. so what I, what I learned from that, uh, I decided to cast a small net because I was in the mindset that if it wasn't a top program, then I didn't wanna go to it. this is also following over a year or, uh, yeah, about a year of not being actively in the arts because everything was closed. some ambitions that perhaps at the time superseded my actual abilities. but, um, I decided to cast a small net of only like, really good programs on the East coast. And needless to say, I didn't get any callbacks at all. it was the rush process. It was very stressful, it was very impulsive, and it was very upsetting at the time as well. and I had done this after only one year, which most programs will only accept after two years with 60 credits and enough to transfer. So it was really just a long shot anyway. but I wanted to go for it because I thought that I, that my time was fleeting in the moment and that it was just something that I had to do that did not work out, obviously. Uh, so I did another year at I V C, and they have a transfer admission guarantee program with uc, Irvine, is what I ended up utilizing. And they essentially transferred into UCI, without needing to, uh, send in an official application, it was more formality. If I did X, Y, Z at IVC, the courses would transfer to UCI and I would transfer in as a junior in the drama program, to obtain a BA in 2024. so that ended up being a major blessing in disguise. I, I admittedly, my time at IV C was extremely difficult. Uh, I'm not gonna say it was an easy process. I'm not gonna say it was always a fun process. and I'm still struggling, you know, trying to keep all my ducks in a row at UCI. Um, cuz college is hard guys.

It's, it's bureaucratic, right? It's, there's, there are boxes to check. There are things to accomplish and colleges are really good at noticing when those boxes aren't checked and you know, truly halting you. Uh, it's, it's difficult. It is so much more bureaucratic than I think people presume going into it.

I agree. And I also think something that caught me off guard was how much I'm learning about myself versus just learning education in general. like obviously there isn't, like you, you go, you take classes, you learn about your art, but I. Didn't realize how much growth I was recognizing in myself either forward growth, backwards growth, until I'm right in the thick of it. And I think that's been the most eye-opening and rewarding. part of this whole process is that it's not so much the material that you cover externally, but also internally that matters.

and in that, lens, all of a sudden your options multiply. Truly, if it is about, if it is about the, the act of, uh, I would almost frame it as like growing up, and the, the act of learning about oneself that can, I think there are more optimum places than others, but I do think it's not just about the four elite schools. It's actually, it is a much wider net. If, if that is ultimately the takeaway.

I mean, everyone always says, It's not the program you go to, it's what you do with the program. And that is true because a good a program will get you good training. Yes. But there are people all over the place who have done who have done what you want to do. And so it's really about the connections you made. Had I not ended up at UCI, that I wouldn't have been in the production I'm part of currently. That is really like something that I wake up looking forward to, going to, and I'm making a connection with a local professional director and I'm meeting people. All the places that I want to be from. Um, not to mention by staying at a local school, I'm living at home and commuting. I'm saving literally tens of thousands of dollars a year. my education at I V C was covered by a Cal Grant, so I went for free. And my U C I education is being covered mostly by a Cal Grant and whatever I have to pay out of pocket. I luckily have saved up enough, that I am going to graduate debt free.

I dance every time I hear this. uh, you're gonna hear a thread in these podcast episodes. I'm bringing a lot of people who are saying the exact same thing, that they are walking away from their undergraduate degree without debt. And what I'm so adamant about, especially for creatives, is that that gives you freedom, that gives you opportunity, that gives you the chance to go after the art form, which is ultimately the larger goal beyond just getting the degree. And I'm, I'm, I celebrate that all day every day.

it's amazing. I mean, I could have gone to an East coast program and spent the$60,000 a year and been in dorms. but as we all know, this is not an immediately or guaranteed rewarding profession. so, To graduate with so much debt. Like I would rather have stayed home, saved up the money, and put down a down payment for rent on an apartment than go to an East coast school and spend that money on a program or in a dorm, and then not have anything to hold me over from when I actually get out of the program. And so now I have that pillow to carry me for a little bit once I do end up getting to where I wanna go. Hopefully going to New York, going to Chicago, going to London, wherever it may be, or even Los Angeles. so luckily I will graduate debt free and I will have, all that I saved for college and the event that I didn't get any grant will be able to take me wherever I need to go for X amount of time. and that is, I think, personally a more rewarding feeling than going to an institution that I wanted to go to three years ago.

and that's, and that's just it. And I, and I love hearing again so much of this time, and I think it is really precious time. This like 18 to 22 age range for a creative, for an actor, for someone who wants to go into a creative field or performing arts field. This is the time to actually really understand your goals. This is the time to really suss them out and, you know, permission to not pin all of the goals on the decisions of a, of a 17 year old they, they're allowed to change and develop and, um, mature. And it sounds like in your case, they really have in many, many ways.

absolutely. Yeah. It, it's really about prioritizing. and I don't think I had a, a proper gauge on that when I was 17, even 18 and 19 when I was. Going through all of this. and now I'm 20, it's only a year later, but I feel like in that year, like I have recognized the most growth, than I have in the past four years. Um, and that's exciting, honestly. Uh, it's, it's pretty exciting to be able to look at that and, and just evaluate like my decisions where it's gotten me and, and recognize that even though where I am might not be where I wanna be in the long run, that I'm still in a good place.

And it's just one more step towards your ultimate goals, right? It, it doesn't keep you from those larger goals. It's, it's just one more stepping stone on the path.

Yes.

So I'm curious about your, your time at, at maybe both, uh, I V C or uci. What are the, the classes that are lighting you up, what's some of that information that you've, you've already taken that's maybe helped you figure out some of these goals or, is, Is there anything that's just been like, burning at you that you've really enjoyed? in terms of curriculum or classes?

Yeah. Uh, something that I never explored before but found. Enjoying so much that I've taken it, this is my third time taking it, is, um, costume production classes. it was nothing that really, inspired interest in me for the longest time cuz I, as an observer of theater, I always appreciated it, but I never tried it. going to ivc, especially getting those credits for transfer, I had to take all of the backstage and technical courses. and the one that I enjoyed the most was costume production. And so much so that when I transferred UCI, I took a costume production course last quarter. I'm taking one this quarter. I would like to take one next quarter as well. And just like, as long as I need production units, I really enjoy creating costumes. Now I know how to sew, which is not only a skill I can use professionally, but at home. so if I buy a pan pair of pants, it's too big. I can fit it to myself now, which. Is, it opens a lot of windows. Especially cuz I Finding 29, 32 pants is real hard in the store.

You gotta find those life hacks where and where and how. You can, you have

Exactly. Um, only has that given me a new skill, but it's also opened up an entire world of opportunities for me in that if, an acting career doesn't go the way I want, or if I find that I'm in a, a dry spell in that sense, I have place to go to, which is costumes. creating them or being a dresser, cuz I've done both. Now I've worked on productions where I've, you know, run backstage, helping quick changes, dressing people, or actually building costumes myself. I would say I would even like to take it a step further and try a handout costume design. That's what I haven't done yet, but I, I feel like that's just waiting to happen. and I, I, still. Think that my, my main goals are on stage. I still wanna be an actor, I wanna be a performer. But it's good to know that there are options outside of that, which I think a lot of people don't realize until they get further into their education that being on stage isn't the only thing, that's worth shooting for.

Yeah. I would even say it's, you know, even if you look at, any really successful actor, um, if they get to a particular height of success or fame, and again, that's all subjective, but they get to a, some form of renowned the actors who have longevity. Have continual rebirth, are continually finding new avenues towards how to express their creativity. I mean, I don't know any Broadway stars who are just Broadway stars and, and again, it's sort starting to find where are those overlaps? Where are the spaces, that come together that makes someone really unique and all of a sudden they can be hireable in another lane or they can be hireable in a, in a new sort of field that can then support their acting. I think I grew up in an era where it was, Broadway or bust. It was, you were an actor or you were something else. And I really think with your generation, It's a new paradigm where it's, and you can be a costume designer and an actor, you can be an entrepreneur and an actor. Like they can actually go in tandem, in, in new

Yeah, absolutely. Um, and similar to that, I see names that I. Watched on Broadway doing little reviews in Los Angeles and vice versa. And it's just the, the scope has grown so much. and I think people are recognizing, like regional productions as having the same abilities as Broadway. It's just where it is. And so it's not the only thing in the world now, and it, it, it, if that's what you wanna do, that's great. That's what I wanna do. I still want to go to New York and try my hand there, but if that's, if, if life takes me on a national tour instead, or it takes me up the street to Los Angeles to a playhouse, I, but as long as you're doing the art, as long as you're making that connection, that's what matters. And that's what matters to me.

Yeah. And I feel like to, to belabor the point, it's exactly what you've learned in these last three years is that it, it is just about doing the art where you're at and your path to get better. Your, your job is to just get better and to acquire more knowledge, which is why I love college. I think colleges are an amazing, uh, amazing fertile ground for artists. I think it's a great place to fail forward. I think it's a great place to learn, to network, but it's not the only place and it's not the end all be all. So it's, it's finding that balance and you've, you've done beautifully by that.

you. Yeah.

Um, it seems like, I think there's a, a conception or maybe a misconception that if you're not at. A quote unquote elite program that there aren't performance opportunities or that you, you're, you're gonna spend all of your life in a classroom and it seems like your journey, you've been able to find a fair amount of performance opportunities. Can you talk us through what, how, and again, barring the pandemic like we, we can acknowledge that first year in college, uh, everything was quiet because of the nature of the pandemic, but how have you been able to find, uh, performance opportunities along the way to sort of stoke those

Um, yeah, that's actually an interesting question cause I think this is another, instance where my path delineates from the the norm. Um, this is, so the draws me chaperone right now, um, is. Actually my first show since I did fame in November, 2021.

Oh,

Yeah. Um, this is part of the journey that's not all peaches and cream and Um, and there's some context as to why, and I guess I can launch into that a little bit. but even before fame, like there, even during the pandemic, like you, I. With your help, of course. Start with Now. Here. This.. And like other programs kind of modeling the, the streaming musical. Um, there a lot of us like found a way to still like express creatively. And even in my early days at IVC, like the first year, um, I was cast as David in Bullets over Broadway. Um, it's gonna be my first like, principal role. I was so excited. We went to one rehearsal on Zoom and then we never met again and it was canceled cause everyone thought we were gonna be done with the pandemic after a couple months and that just wasn't the case. but then that turned into an online, a virtual cabaret. Um, and I did a couple of, of, you know, uh, at home. Things with, and, and that's exciting cuz you're still finding a way to be creative from your house and, and share it with people. The internet is amazing. for that. then once things finally started to slowly reopen, um, I did fame at I V C and it was my first time being in a show since now here, this over a year before. and it was very exciting. I was playing Nick Piazza. Um, I have to say it was not a perfect experience. It I v C was very pivotal in my life and that it got me to where I am right now. Um, I did learn a lot, mostly about technical theater. My experiences, um, I would say I learned a lot, but it was difficult. It was hard. I I, then I, like I said, I, that was the last show I did until now, and there's a few reasons for that. One of them being that, um, in order to transfer, uh, for the degree that I was getting an, an associate's degree in the arts for transfer, I needed to get a technical theater credits under my belt. And because theaters were closed for a year and Irvine Valley wasn't producing shows for a year. I only had one semester to get all the credits that I needed. now that we were back. So what that looked like for me was I was taking a stage management course. I was taking a costume in course, and I was taking an audio and visual design course. This

At the same time.

at the same time. This was in the spring, late the winter and spring of 2022, So that was, we were doing two productions. We were doing Oliver, that was started rehearsing in January and ran in April, and we were doing much to do about nothing that started also rehearsing in January, but didn't run until mid-May, which is a very long time to be seated in one production that rehearses five days a week. I was the assistant stage manager for much to do about nothing. I was costumes and audio visual for Oliver, which both were in the works for five months. Five days a week. It was 15 hours of rehearsal a week. And I'm also a full-time student. And I'm also, I also had a job, but I would work five shift a week. I'm not gonna sugarcoat it. It was an absolute nightmare. Uh, uh, it was, I would get outta rehears. I would get up in the morning and leave at eight to go to work. I'd go to class, I'd go to rehearsal. I wouldn't, I. Would have maybe 30 minutes of break total throughout the day just to eat something really fast and go to the next thing. Rehearsal would get out. I would sit in my car, cry for five minutes, and then drive home and repeat the next day. um,

five months. For

for five whole months. And so that happened and I, I think when looking back that there were, there was silver linings I, which didn't seem so at the time, but now it was, I needed to take a break. I needed to take a step back. and so I, I had done a lot of work backstage and it was great I realized after all these experiences, after five months of just Pulling out gray hairs every now and then just, um, I needed to take a step back and I needed to remind myself why I did what I did. And no matter how much I enjoyed stage managing or how much I enjoyed building costumes, I constantly found myself wanting to be on the other side of the table, wanting to be on stage and, and making these connections with audiences. Um, but I, I was so disappointed by my experiences that I really needed to just take a, a break. Um, and I needed to be an observer of theater and like see shows and remind myself why I enjoyed it. So, um, that's what I did. I saw over 50 shows last year, just primarily in, in New York and London. Um, and. It was very redeeming to go to a show, but not have to put any effort into making it happen. Um, and to see so many live performances and some, I, I mean, I saw a lot of the greats, uh, like over the summer, Patti LuPone, Amy Adams, Billy Crystal, like, I just, I saw so many people who. I have wanted to emulate in my career and like who I look up to as performers. and it was a good reminder of why I do it. I think a lot of times when we want something so much, uh, that's both a passion and a career, we lose sight of the passion part of it. And, and I needed a reminder of why I enjoy it and why it was fun and what that connection was that I initially did theater for in order to achieve. Um, and in order to do that, I needed to be an audience member. I needed to just be an audience member and just enjoy it. and so by the time the summer was over and I had had my break, and I felt like I was myself again, and I felt like I was able to prioritize myself instead of meet the demands of institutions and people and this and that, um, by the time that break was over, I was ready. I was inspired again, and I was ready to do a show again. And that's where I am right now.

I, just as someone who's known you, as long as I have, I just, you know, my heart aches that anytime, we as artists, we have to go through those, toxic or, dysfunctional workspaces because I think that really messes with our passion. It really does. It really does take us off course. It, it puts us in resentment. It makes us feel. I know hyperbolically. I've, I, when I'm in those spaces, I feel hyperbolically angry about them. because the art form means so much to me or to you in this case. but I, I love, and I don't know where and how you learn this, but you clearly understand the artist cycle, which is, is so important to include the input is to sit and be inspired to then go back into the making of something. it has to be balanced, you have to collect inspiration, make things from that inspiration, and then share that inspiration and then rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat, and you, everything you just described that. That's exactly it. How conscious were you when you decided, cause you were in New York for. Uh, your Instagram was, it was like every day there were two or three playbill photos coming, coming into to the screen. Um, how did you know that? How did you know that you needed to go do that? Or was, or did you learn that along the way?

being from New York, all my family's from New York and having just wanted to go into theater and also myself being so up to date on what's new in the theater world, um, cuz that's just what I'm interested in, what excites me, even outside of a career. It's just what I'm into. I knew that like I, every time I go to New York, my, the main thing I wanna do is just go see as many shows as I can and just like be exposed to the top, like that, that level of theater. obviously like for me, Broadway is the big draw and then there's also, you know, all your off Broadway and little regional theaters that I, that I've surprisingly the only more recently started to really look into and like try to see, cuz it's everywhere. I mean, it's not just Broadway, it's everywhere. Cuz even though theater is everywhere, the, a lot of the shows, a lot of the people that I go to see, are limited. Like they, they don't run forever. And so when I go there, I just, I just wanna take in as much as I possibly can and I get to, to talk about it with people. And I, and also as far as my foundation of theater knowledge, like that's all information that instead of going on the internet, I can be there and I can say I witnessed this part of theater history, as large or as small as it might be. so I do, that was a big part of it is I knew. I needed to get into a positive theater space as soon as possible. I knew that I needed to have this connection again. And I felt that being an observer and having this connection would remind me of why I was doing theater in the first place, which I was starting to lose sight of at this time. and so yes, a lot of it was planned. I didn't realize at the time the, restorative impact that it would have. I knew that there would be some amount of it because it's ju there is no more intimate form of, of storytelling, in my opinion, than going to live theater. And I was like, I need this right now. I need to feel that connection with, with people who are telling stories that I can relate to. I didn't quite anticipate the scope of it though. I just, in New York, I. 29 productions. and then in London I saw 12. and then I also saw over a dozen in California, in Los Angeles community, professional, local. Um, and it really, it, it like reset something in me,

It refilled the well and we need, we need to refill and restock that. Well, it's so, so important, and I'm just gonna like caveat this. The fact that you could afford to do it, As well. Right? The fact that you could afford to do it. And look, I, I, I know there are student programs, I know there are tk t s, there's, there are ways to get discount tickets, but that, that was an investment in yourself and in you continuing forward. And I, I just, I love hearing a young actor take agency over that aspect of their life, of their, and I would, I would name that even beyond your career. It's just your creative life, your creative fire that's so

Absolutely. Uh, yeah, it was, it was a hefty investment. Um, and it was a good learning experience for me as well, especially financially. Um, I had some, I figured I would be able to do this because I had some prospective opportunities that were coming in the fall that would help me recover from it. That ended up not, Materializing all the way. So I find myself that even though that was months ago there, I'm still recovering from it. Um, it was a big investment, but I saved up and I knew that looking back, I wouldn't regret it because that was what was important to me. And that was really, I think potentially a once in a lifetime experience that I get to say I got to have. and I did everything that I wanted to do, and that was so rewarding to me that even though it cost a lot, I, I will never regret it because these are memories that I have made that will last a lifetime. and I think that's important. Like I, I've always been 50, and especially with staying at home and saving up that money, I don't need to, I don't buy a lot of clothes. I don't my, you know, I, I don't buy concert ticket or this and that. Like, I save money so that I can have these meaningful experiences for myself. I always prefer had having an experience than a possession. and so that, that was why I was able to do it. I also hope that I, I worked over the summer, um, so I, my family still lives in New York and so when I was staying in the city, my cousin has a restaurant, um, in Manhattan. and I was able to work during the day and then go to a show at night, and it was just perfect. It worked out so well.

I love that and I, I'll, I'll never forget there was, there was a exchange we had and you were like, yeah. And by the way, like when I move to New York, I now have a built-in job and the fact that you, you've set yourself up to live the life that you want and you've put really pragmatic thought into it. It's not been perfect, it's not been easy, but you're actually setting yourself up for when you hit 22. You've got those things, you have a clear idea of what you want, and you now have pragmatic tools to get you to get you there.

absolutely. that was one of the reasons that going to college was important for me as well is because, um, and not only do I make connections in terms of my career, but I'm also meeting people who want to do the same thing that I wanna do. and so when I'm ready to take that next step, I have a whole system of friends, of collaborators who are all going for the same goal and we can support each other along the way. Um, I don't plan to like move to New York and be on my own in an Upper West Side apartment loft and live the high life. I'm probably gonna be, you know, in a little matchbox apartment with three or four roommates. But this is where I'm needing those people and starting to get those opportunities and figure out what it's going to look like realistically. and that's, that's why I'm doing this. This is the foundation, this is the groundwork.

Yep. It's, it's, it allows you to be eyes wide open, going towards your dream, and I think walking towards a dream with blinders and with your eyes shut is, is dangerous. and. And the fact that you've, again, you've had agency towards it, you're, you're really, you're very pragmatic and thorough about it, which then tells me as someone who has also walked that walk, someone who has also been, who was a, was once a young version of you, right? Like knowing that you have that clarity right now, I can see so many speed bumps that you're going to naturally avoid. It's not to say that speed bumps aren't coming cuz they will, like, welcome to life in the creative field, but you have such clarity moving forward and moving towards them and I'm, I'm thrilled about that.

Thank you. Yeah, I, I feel like, I mean, I, even at 20, I feel like I've already been thrown so many curve balls. but all it does is, is show you that there's another pathway, cuz I mean, I, I haven't been knocked from my per yet. It's just about learning to adapt and learning to accept. There's so much of this is just accepting your situation as what it is and like work with what you have because you can't work against it.

Preach, Adam preach. but it's true because it, the, this career that you're after, this, this path, it isn't actually about talent. Talent is one small sliver of the equation. It really truly is more about the resilience and the perseverance and, and that can only come when you actually practice that sort of like self-care, self-love, self-acceptance. That's huge. Huge.

Yeah.

so let's talk a little bit about finances. I know we've, we've touched upon it through this, and I've been asking all of my guests this question, do you think you overspent, underspent, or did you get it just right?

I think I got it just right. Uh, I know which feels so good to say. I think as far as personal expenses, like my little summer extravaganza, like there's maybe a little bit of overspending there, but it's nothing that's gonna be, that I think is gonna cost permanent damage at all. and luckily, like I have a lot sa savings, I haven't touched my savings, as far as like my educational expenses and my life expenses, I think I'm getting, I think I'm doing really well for myself. like I said, my tuition at IV C wasn't just free for me, but my grant actually covered more than the tuition. So every semester I would get pocket change that they would just give me. and that would help me cover so much. And then transferring to UCI, where my Cal Grant, I, I'm not living on campus, so that right there is almost$13,000 a year that I'm not spending. the tuition still comes out to about 16 to$17,000, but, but my Cal Grant is covering over 13,000 of those dollars. yes. Wow. I said the same thing. And you know, it was funny cuz when I first applied for fafsa, um, in, in June, and I don't recommend doing this. Missing the deadline, which I did. Uh,

I was gonna I was about to be like June. Uh, pretty sure that's, I'm pretty sure that's not it, but Got it.

exactly. so definitely don't do that, but So when I first applied that first email I got from FASA said, no aid. And I was like, oh my God. But thank goodness I had saved up enough money in my, um, in my scholar share to cover a full year of tuition in the event that I didn't get aid, which I ended up not needing because three months later I got a renewed aid package that gave me that grant of$13,000. And I was like, lesson learned. Count your blessings.

That's a huge win. Oh, wow.

um, like the weight that left my shoulders in that moment. so, and then, like I said, I, I had saved up and my savings to cover and still have a pillow. And luckily the aid package that I got, was for both this year and next year. Um, so I know that I'm set and I will graduate with what, what's left of my savings, which is most of it, because honestly, I, even for the what was left over from my aid that I, that wasn't covered by my aid, I tried to draw from my checking and like my, my personal money as much as I could rather than my scholarship, because I knew that once I graduated, like I'd want that scholarship pillow to carry me wherever I needed. So it, it, you know, it's been trying to find a financial balance and it's not been perfect, but I'd say that. I, I'm very fortunately in a good place as far as spending. I feel like I'm like on that, just right

Yeah. And, and you know, correct me if I'm wrong, that means there's been little to no impact on family, meaning it sounds like you've been totally or relatively insular. I know you're living at home, but, uh, that's probably been a great win for your family as a whole.

That is correct. Um, my brother and I, um, kind of put ourselves through college. Um, Obviously, like, yes, I'm living at home and my parents are helpful with their car bill, with the medical bills, with everything cuz I'm their kid. Um, but but, uh, as far as like going through school, that's all been on me. this is, this is the best path for someone who is putting themselves through school is you. You want to save as much as you can cuz it's not just school, it's, you're also saving for everything that happens after that. So, yeah. Yeah.

Again, I applaud the pragmatic. Clear-eyed decisions that you're, that you're making. It's, this is, this is to be applauded. I wish more people could, could walk through this with, again, not trading pragmatism for dreams. Like I feel like it, it's, there's sort of this idea of one or the other, but in fact that pragmatism is actually going to, uh, stairstep you closer to your dreams faster is what would be my, would be my guess if I were putting money on it.

Absolutely.

okay, So I'd love to sort of hear, Adam, your, you're such, and I say this with all the love. You are such a theater nerd you like in every way possible. And I, that's, you know, I say that because I nominate myself as a giant theater nerd as well. So, you know, game sees

Oh yeah, yeah,

but what sort of pathways do you see for yourself? Uh, I think you, you have such interesting experiences, both as an actor having gone to a school of the arts for high school, uh, the fact that you're interested in, in costuming. The, the fact that you are just like a natural walking dramaturg What sort of pathways do you imagine for yourself moving forward, both in, you know, pieing, the sky, dreamscape, and, and maybe also the more pragmatic options that you're, that you're excited that are in front of you?

Uh, yeah, I, so I definitely see myself pursuing, a acting before anything else. I do see myself moving to New York, straight out of college and, and trying my hand in any capacity over there. Realistically, I think starting out, working in like a restaurant or something like, like my cousin's restaurant or, and probably having roommates. Um, eventually I would like to go back to school. I would like to go for like either a master's degree or some thing in either education or dramaturgy. because I think that's part, like, part of spreading theater isn't just being part of a production, but like teaching is also a huge opportunity. And like going into drama, church will open pathways either in fields of history or in theater, local or professional, I don't know when that's going to happen, but it's something that I would like to happen. Um, but the, I don't think it needs to happen right now, um, especially cuz as I learned from just by going to uci, is that I, those are achievable goals at any institution. And so right now I'm,

I am literally over here just like screaming with joy because it's, it's textbook awesome.

yeah, so like right now I'm focusing on getting my drama degree here and that's gonna lay the foundational work for my prospective career. And then once I'm over there, or once I'm settled down wherever I feel like I'm gonna be, then I can go to anywhere local or not and, and take that step further while still being in the vicinity of, of my potential goals. Uh, if that makes sense.

I love that. I love that. And that actually speaks beautifully to maybe the idea of getting a BA versus a bfa. Uh, if you, if you know you have future goals of grad school, one, the fact that you don't have any undergraduate debt means you get to choose like your call, and two, I think the, the generalist degree or curriculum with a BA program in many ways can be really beneficial. And it's not to say that you, I think there's this misconception that you will lose performance, rigor or opportunities because you're in a BA over A B F A. It just means you're taking a different percentage of gen ed and lecture courses to performance courses. So I actually would, do you wanna speak to that? The idea of like, how are you enjoying a BA program versus a BFA program

Yeah, actually that is something that I thought about a lot, um, especially because UCI has, um, a rather, uh, well received BFA program, that I was seriously considering at first. But, um, I decided not to go down that route, uh, for a couple of reasons. Uh, one of them, and this is probably one of the main reasons being that, it would require me to put in an extra year, as a transfer student, the, it, it would take three years instead of two in order to graduate. And, as far as like finance goes, and as far as just like where I feel that I am personally in my life, not just in my career, but in my personal life and like where, and I'm starting to ask myself the questions of like, where do I want to go? Like, what do I want to do outside of my career? Where do I wanna be? And I'm finding that the answer. Not here. Um, and so put, and I don't, I don't mean that to sound like underhanded or anything, but it's just I feel that I'm being called somewhere else. And so for me, financially and also time wise, I don't feel it necessary to do an extra year here, especially since the course difference isn't super different, it's a little bit more streamlined, but I'm also finding that that more general education is going to open more doors for me personally in the future. Because like I said, I'm interested in doing costumes as well or as like a, as a fallback or side side job. Um, I also enjoyed stage managing and if the opportunity came to do it somewhere where I could get a more beneficial experience doing so, then I would absolutely take it. And I find that doing a BFA program for acting only might limit those options for me when I, when someone who. Only wants to do that, it would be perfect for them. But for me, when I'm still interested in, in enjoying the, the experience of getting it all, I wanna have that more general experience. Uh, so I think it's the, for me, taking the BA instead of the BFA is not only saving me time and money, but also giving me a l a few more options. and I'm still performing, I'm still doing, I'm still taking the classes and being on stage. So right now I feel like I'm getting the best of both worlds with where I am.

It keeps going back to, it's not, it's not the degree, it's what you do with the information, it's how you apply yourself. It's not where you go to school, it's how you go to school. Like, it, it really is. It, I, I love this, Adam. I knew when I got into this call I would be very excited and happy to hear your updates and that is confirmed. we'll start, uh, start on our sort of wrapping up and, and I ask everyone this question too, cuz I think it's, it's a great reflective question because, For so many in the creative arts, the college application process can be really fraught. It can be really scary. Uh, there's a lot of insecurity. You're dealing with rejection, you're dealing with so many unknown variables, and we're trying to find security and in a lane that maybe isn't going to give you security. But that being said, as is always the case, hindsight's 2020. So I'm curious, what's the one thing you wish you had understood about the college application process before you started? So what, what would you tell that 17 or 18 year old Adam, that 20 year old Adam knows now?

I would say, To 17 year old Adam, whatever you want to happen does not need to happen today or yesterday even. I know that when I was, hasn't happened yet. Why not? And

I'm not a Broadway star and I'm 17 and a half.

exactly, and I need to remind myself that life is long life. Yes, life is short, but life is also long. And I'm like, you can find success at any point. If it doesn't happen when you're 20, it doesn't mean it's not going to happen when you're 21 or even 30 or 40. and also, Kind of the past few years, I've like redefined what my idea of success is because success isn't being famous or having your name above the title. Like it's, to me like it's having work, in any capacity. like I would rather I, I mean I, I think a lot of people in the profession that I've met, Over the last year and just in general in college and professors saying this and stuff, just as long as you're doing anything like that, that's a good place to be

Yep.

and I think if I, if I had that information when I was 17, it would've saved me a lot of stress and a lot of time and a lot of money because college applications themselves are expensive also, and they're time consuming and they're stressful. And I realize now that like a lot of the worry that I put myself through trying to get to this place that didn't end up happening really wasn't necessary for me. Because where I am right now is a good place to be in terms of success, where I'm not only learning and learning while saving money and performing, while learning, while saving money, but

It sounds about as, as ideal as I could

yeah, it's exactly where I wanted to be, just in a different place. And I'm still getting those opportunities in this place.

And that's, that is the managing of, of expectations and allowing for the pathway to unveil itself. And it really is. I love this idea of like, it's actually just about the next right step.

it's

get all rejections, what's the next right step? What are you gonna do? Because that is resilience. That is perseverance.

If I had gotten into another program and been across the country somewhere, then I would've missed out on this opportunity to be playing one of my dream roles with a, a wonderful cast and director and make that connection here.

And conversely, what's sort of interesting is had you got into one of those schools and you had gone, you would've then had to make those next right decisions, which would've been different than what you are where you're at right now. And a again, it's, uh, you know, I'm not a huge proponent of debt, but it's not like debt is also like life ending. It is, it is ultimately just about continually taking the next right step for you. And again, I love that the universe just sort of like nudged you exactly where you needed to go. I mean, you, it set you up beautifully.

in this moment, I feel exactly that. And you're right, it's not, like you said, it's not, or it's, and if I had ended up somewhere else, I might be in the exact same place that I am now making those decisions. But that's just not what happened. And so where I am now, as long as I have, like I've in a truthful evaluation, like it's still a fine place to be no matter where you end up in the best program, in the worst program, it's It's just how you handle it. And that'll, that's what makes it good.

Yeah. Oh, Adam, I just, I, I can't, I'm so, so freaking proud of you, and I'm so grateful that you could, put words to your experience. I know you're still living it in real time. Like you're, you've got a show tonight, you know, like that. I will be at it. I'm very excited to

I'm so excited for you to come see this one.

Um, because like special fun fact, the first show I did at OCSA that I directed, uh, which was your sophomore year, was the Drowsy Chaperone because it's maybe my favorite musical on the planet. I I love this musical so much. It's like a musical theater lover's dream. Like it's just so great. And Adam, you were you were in the ensemble and you were the understudy for man and chair. And this is to speak to Adam's like specialness. You know, in high school when we say someone's an understudy, it's often a, a great educational chance to, to give another student an opportunity to learn something. And It's, it's just a high win for a lot of people. It gives us coverage, it gives us insurance, you know, should someone get sick, especially today. We weren't, we weren't thinking about Covid way back when, but, uh, it's, it's a wonderful opportunity. So sees it for someone who was a professional understudy, it's, it's great, but often you never know what to necessarily expect in terms of what someone would bring to that sort of opportunity. And Adam, I will never, in, in my educational experience, I don't think I will ever forget the run through where you stepped in because Preston had, uh, sweet Preston Harris, who we love and you guys worked so beautifully together. Uh, but he had to miss a rehearsal and it was a run through, I think it was one of our first run throughs. And we did not rehearse. there, we did not have any Putins. And you commanded that rehearsal. You were word for word verbatim memorized. You made choices that were your own. And as a sophomore in high school, you made the most of that, of that opportunity. I remember just like my socks were knocked off, I couldn't believe the, the amount of work and dedication. And again, it was one of those moments where I was like, oh, that's tribe, that's, that's someone who loves this truly and deeply. And, and you know, and I've, I've known that ever since that moment. cuz I've seen that in, in many different iterations. But it was that first preview that I saw to the depth of how much you love this art form was in that rehearsal. And the idea of like, this is my, this is my moment and I'm gonna make the most of it. And it, it. It still has a lasting impact on me, and I'm sure many of the people who are in that room that day,

Thank you. Yeah, I, I think, and I hope you'll see a lot of that tonight, with the added growth of. A couple years of training. And I honestly, I that experience that I had in high school is what got me right now where I am playing the role today. and I just think in myself too, I, I love this show so much. Also, it is by theater lovers, four theater lovers, and I have my own record collection of obscure musical theater albums from the fifties to seventies. And, um, a lot, even in the cast I'm in now, everyone's like, wow, you're, you're just like him and like, which I, it's just so funny to hear. Cause you know, every time someone mentions a musical obscure or not, I'm like, oh, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Here's all I know about it. I'm like, whoa, like slow down, um, But, um, it was a great learning opportunity. It was so nice that my parents got to see that one too. but. That, uh, that was something that I wanted to speak to also with my current college experience, um, that I think is important. and it, it ties all back to that in like getting the opportunity to do that and the growth part of it, because I feel like where I was then and where I am now, I, I think you'll be able to see and like feel the difference. and that's a testament to my current education now, even though it hasn't all been, you know, riding high, that growth that I've recognized in myself. Like you, you learned where to recognize like where your assets are. And I think even this last year, like I don't think over the summer I would've been able to play man and chair in the way I'm doing it now. I don't think I. Maybe even gotten cast as it. but my first quarter at uci, I met one of my teachers and it's one of those teachers that I think about that I say, this teacher's gonna change my life. And that's how I felt in high school with you, Mr. Barnard. That's how I feel with my current musical theater workshop teacher. Um, and I think that's part of the reason that my college journey didn't go the exact way it I wanted it to at the time also is because coming out of high school, I, I don't think I had a proper gauge on my, on my headspace, on my, my self, my self image. And so I, I let that get ahead of the work. Talent isn't just. Talent. It, it, it's work. and I think that this year, being where I am has shown me that, and I think this is really the first time where I have a proper idea of what that work is. I think in high school what happened with s a chaperone to me was, was luck It was, it was work, but in a different capacity. It was, it was, it was different. And now that I'm an adult and that I can, you know, and now that I can like recognize what it, I can actually say, this is the thing that I'm going for. that's what I've learned. And so I don't look back and think, oh, why didn't I get into that college? They should, I don't. I don't at all. I look back and I go, yeah, that makes sense. I wouldn't have I I probably wouldn't have called me back either. But, but the work that I've done between then and now, something clicked and now I feel like I can say, I earned this. Because I've done that work that they're looking for, and I can bring that anywhere.

Continuing to move forward. You're, that is, that is the job. And it's, it is that little bit of self-inquiry, self-inventory, and then moving that back out. It goes back to the artist cycle of like, fill the well with inspiration, make something, put it out into the world. Rinse, repeat, like it's, and you're, you're doing it. Oh, I can't wait for tonight. This

I'm so excited. I think you'll appreciate this story. Um, the moment that I felt the well was full, um, as far as this summer when when I was seven. We went to New York and I saw Mary Poppin, so that was my first Broadway show, and that is the reason that I started doing theater. It's, it's not my favorite show by any means, but it is like, I saw Step in Time and like I saw the show and it was, and I was so enamored, it was so magical. and I remember the first thing I said to, well, I don't remember if this is what was told to me cause I was seven, my mom was like, she's the first thing I said when we got outta the theater. I said, mommy, I wanna tap like Burt. So I started Top Dancing in oh seven and I was a dance, I was like a dancer, dancer, um, for like three or four years. Like I did I've com competed. and I was good too. You'd never know now, but, uh, I'm okay. I'm okay. I started dancing again. I never remember how much I enjoyed it, but like, that's the hard part. But anyway, so I started dancing, then I started doing theater because I started in elementary school, like doing the little classroom musicals and I was like, oh, this is fun. And there's a voice somewhere in there. Um, and so then I started doing theater, um, and. I never went back to Mary Poppins. I never listened to it, I never watched it, but I, I will always remember a step in time is just one of my favorite numbers ever. And especially when one of my first tap recitals was we did step In Time and that was just us, but, and it was nine or eight, so it was, it was time ago. Fast forward to last year and we're, I'm in London and I went with Dar, I don't know if you know Daria. She went to osha. So. So we went to London together. It was just the two of us. It was a great, it was so much fun. We saw a bunch of shows together and there was a revival, uh, it was a replica production revival of Mary Poppins at the Prince Edward Theater, which is where it originated in 2005. And it was with Liz Robertson, who's Alan j Lerner's wife. Um, and Patula Clark was the bird lady. And we hadn't planned on, we had only planned on seeing five shows. We ended up seeing 10

Slippery slope. Slippery

Cause every morning I'm like, T kts right outside West Square. Sure, why not? Um, so one of the nights I was like, you know what, why don't I go see Mary Poppins? Like, I feel like we're in London. It's Mary Poppins. Like, let's just go see it. I I still had nostalgia for it, so we're watching it. It was very lovely. It was a very, it's Mary Poppin. It's a good sh it's a good production. And it's It's gorgeous set. I mean, the cast was awesome. Petula Clark, are you kidding me? She's 89 and she's like, I was so enamored by her. And then, We get. And I, I was just enjoying it. Like anybody would, the first beats of Step in time happen and just tears. Like, I just couldn't control, I was just a mess from that point to the rest of the show, because it's somewhere in the middle of Act two and for the rest of the show I was just sobbing so hard and like the show gets out and I, I'm like getting, I'm getting emotional talking about it right now cause it's just such a personal experience. And Daria was just like, like, okay, I get crying at the show, but like step in time, I was just like, no, you don't understand like that, that is the song that started all of this for me. And so not having revisited the show and then 13 years later after seeing it, this particular production, like seeing it in London, like where it's meant to be seen. And I was like, and seeing this number again for the first time after not having revisited since it, since this is a reason that I do what I do. Um, it, it was like that was, I was like, the is full, like I was just like, this is, this is the reminder that I need. It was such a, it was so sharp and intense and so emotional, like I was just a mess for the rest of the night.

But it's, it's tapping into that, um, that childlike wonder, which I think is, is the core of why we do what we do and what we're trying to inspire.

of like the hard, hard damage that was done from the past six months that I was working through. Was like gone in that moment because in that moment, like Cheryl was on vacation already for like a week or so and having a good time. But like that was the first moment and probably the only moment that I was like I was seven years old sitting in that seat and I was just like, okay. Like I, I, that was when it clicked for me and I was just like, I remember like, not only was I dealing with the nostalgia of, of that first time, that first time that we, like, I, I'm so grateful that I remember what the spark was for me that like started it. and so to like not only relive that, but just like in the circumstance that it happened during, yeah, that was, that was it for me.

I I love that. I love it. Cuz again, that is so regenerative and it will repeat itself. It won't happen every time you sit down into a theater, but when you, when those moments happen, uh, I, I don't know, I would, I would even equate that to like synchronicity or like deja vu. Those, those moments where you feel like, You're back in line with yourself. And I think as artists, it's really vital to continually, because we live in such a topsy-turvy industry and such a topsy-turvy, uh, sometimes experience, it is ultimately our job, not the industry's job to right the ship. And that sounds like you did it beautifully. Thank you. Thank you Mary Poppins.

Yes.

And it, it, it appears and isn't that so funny? Like, it's so, um, ephemeral theater so that, you know, because it's, it's, it mostly lives in our memories outside of, you know, some slime tutorials on YouTube. It's, uh, it, it doesn't, you don't get, uh, a hard copy of it. You just have these fleeting memories. And so when those line up with a present moment experience, ooh, that's, that's really

It is, it is Sgy. Just, um, I, yeah, and I mean, that's just, I testament to theater too. Like I even, I mean, not every show is like gonna be like, there are some shows that I'm just like, oh my God. But, but like, despite, despite

just make sure you do the 10 block rule. You've gotta, you've gotta hold onto the 10 block rule, especially in New York. If you go see something that you're like, well, that was interesting. You shut your mouth and you walk 10 blocks, one in one direction, you, you gotta, you gotta get outta earshot. If you gotta, if you need to unpack a ugh, experience, 10

I love that. But

20 to be safe.

But that's to say that like, I will never, ever, ever walk out of a theater if I'm not enjoying what I'm seeing. Um, because it's not just about the, it's really easy to look at theater and just get big picture. Uh, but like, I, I, and I found that in my love of dramaturgy and of theater history, like I can tend to get really critical of the works that I'm seeing.

Sure.

Which is both a good and bad thing because I think like there was some sh especially this summer, I was like, I need to just enjoy this show. I'm not, I don't wanna think about it. Um, and like I have to remind myself of that cuz otherwise I'll like pull it apart. I won't like rip it apart, but I'll just have to be like, analysis Ana and like go, go crazy. And like, sometimes you need to just remind yourself to enjoy something. But like, even that said, like no matter how much I like or dislike at work, like the, just the, the value of being in a live theater space even three years ago, but especially now, is so important. And there's just nothing like that. And it made me not only respect like. Get a further appreciation for sure, professional and commercial theater, but just for community theater, for college theater. For what I'm in right now, I'm in a university theater production, and it's like one of the most rewarding productions I've ever been a part of because I'm now going in with that insight of like the val, this space, this host, so sacred that even if, if that connection, but I think you understand what I'm saying is that like no matter what you go into, like no matter how hard you judge it, like I, I have to remind myself, I want everybody to remind themselves of just like how important that live connection is, because it's really rare. It really is super, super rare.

And all the more in this current day and age, in this modern age where we are, you know, we're absolutely connected to our phones and we're in community in digital forms, but not in actually coming together. That, that part of the art form, man. It is, it's hallowed ground. It's really, it is sacred ground. And knowing that people have been doing this for hundreds, thousands of years like that, there's a tradition with it. And I know you're someone who does, you play with both the right and left side of your brain as you approach theater. Uh, but. I think it's because of that balance that you can then also show up to it with that third sense, that, that spiritual sense, that sense of like, this is special. I don't always know why, I don't always know how, but it's really deeply special. And to be able to honor that,

Hmm. Absolutely.

I'm just, I'm so thrilled and I can't wait to see your performance tonight. I'm sure I will have a, like Mary Poppins, like step in time, uh, tear because I have my own connection to the first time I saw that show and, and my experiences with it ever since. So I'm very excited to add to that. My own theater tradition scene, your, your production tonight. But Adam, you always had, and you still possess this incredible spirit of curiosity, friendliness, and insight. And I'm so grateful to know you and to continue to see you strive and reach for your goals and your dreams, and to do it without getting hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt. So rock onto.

Thank you. Thank you so much. Um, This is so much fun. It was so nice to reconnect with you and chat, and I'm so grateful that you brought me on to here because I don't think I even fully recognize the value of my journey, um, all the time. And so to have it pointed out to me puts things into a different perspective, and I'm glad that, um, I can share it with people and hopefully, you know,

Yeah. And give people insight of like, here's, here's another way to do it. And again, your path isn't gonna work for everyone, but it could work for a lot of people and it's just great to to hear it. Um, if anyone wants to get a hold of you or, um, wants to see work you're doing, do you have any, uh, socials or anything you want to share with any listen.

absolutely. Um, I'm always accessible through Instagram, which is, hey, it's Adam, h e y y a l l i t s a d a,

Hey y'all, it's Adam. I love, I love that handle. Um, we'll be sure to put that link in the podcast episode. Uh, thank you Adam. Thank you for spending your time here today, and that's another interview episode of the Creative College Journey podcast. We hope this episode with Adam Caston was beneficial to you. And we want to thank you for taking time out of your day to listen. If you are need of some encouragement, guidance, and inspiration for your college journey and would like to work with me, don't hesitate to reach out to our website, www.creativecollegejourney.com to schedule a free, no obligation, one hour consultation to find out the many ways the creative College journey can help you on your path. You can also find me on Instagram at Scott Barnhardt. If you enjoy the show, please write and review us on Apple Podcast. It helps others find us. And be sure to come back in the coming weeks for more discussions about creative college admissions, lowering the temperature on the process and the many industry pathways and transferable skills that a creative education and life can offer. Don't forget, it's not where you go to school, but how you go to school. That counts. Thank you. Awesome. Thank you, Adam.