Scott Barnhardt: 0:00

This episode contains candid conversations relating to eating disorders and mental health issues. If you or someone you know is struggling with an eating disorder, please seek professional help. The National Eating Disorders Association Helpline is available at 1-800-931-2237. Listener, discretion is advised.

Sara Cravens: 0:26

Welcome to the Creative College Journey Podcast, the place to help raise awareness on the many pathways to a creative life and education and how college might be a part of it, because it's not where you go to school, but how you go to school that counts. Hosted by professional, creative and college expert, scott Barnhart, who is chatting with a variety of guests who have some amazing lived experiences from different universities, majors and creative industry interests, and we hope by hearing their stories it might help give you some inspiration to find your own Creative College.

Scott Barnhardt: 1:05

Journey. I am thrilled to welcome my next guest today, robin Baker, who I knew as Robin Yamanaka. Robin is someone who I went to high school with, at Los Alamitos High School and Orange County High School of the Arts, now Orange County School of the Arts Many moons ago. She was a sophomore when I was a senior and Robin is someone I've always been a big fan of. When I think of that sophomore Robin, I see an exceptionally talented human and someone who is so, so, very kind. But I never knew until recently that we shared a college rejection letter pain point together, that we both had it and she made this amazing Facebook post about it, and it's an experience neither of us were really prepared for and one that we've both been working on healing for decades. And the second I read it I was like I want to discuss this on this podcast and I'm grateful she graciously agreed.

Scott Barnhardt: 2:03

Robin Baker is a homeschooling mother of three and a graduate student at Brown University, getting her master's in public health, as well as having received her bachelor's of science from Cal State University, fullerton in kinesiology. Robin has worn many hats over her 42 years of life, including singer, actress, personal trainer, pilates teacher, yoga instructor, author, restaurant hostess, business owner and recovery coach. She's grateful for all the wisdom and opportunities she's been blessed to acquire and experience over the years. She is an advocate for eating disorder recovery, size, body diversity and health equality and accessibility. She hopes to one day create a healthcare system that truly values all lives, and if anyone can do it, it's Robin Baker. On a personal note, while it's been a long time since we've seen each other in person, I am so impressed with her online presence, her activism, her nuanced sharing of parenthood and giving voice to the many issues she is so passionate about. Robin is a brilliant example of how creativity can infuse every corner of your life in powerful and dynamic ways. So with that, welcome to the podcast, robin Baker.

Robyn Baker: 3:16

Thank you so much, Scott. I know it's been so long.

Scott Barnhardt: 3:21

It's been a minute. It's been a minute Really quick question up front. Give us a little update how are you? Where are you? I know you just started your program at Brown online, I believe.

Robyn Baker: 3:32

No, I'm not flying back and forth. That would be fun, though.

Scott Barnhardt: 3:34

That would be a tricky commute. You're also a mama three. So tell us actually, how are you?

Robyn Baker: 3:43

I'm tired all the time. Well, no, I've actually. It's interesting, I think, since my youngest now is now four and a half, sleep is actually coming back to me, which is amazing. Yes, I love the sleep, so I'm doing okay. I'm doing a lot better than I was probably, I'd say, three years ago when we started homeschooling and I was trying to figure everything out and there was a huge learning curve. I've found my homeschooling like the community that they now have friends that are homeschooling people. So I've rebuilt kind of like my friendship circle with different moms that have kids that are homeschooling. We found a lot more resources. We had to move the summer of 2020, which was really hard, so we're finally like getting used to our area.

Robyn Baker: 4:48

There's been a lot of just big shifts, big redefining what things mean in my life over these past three, four years. I mean, I think it even began when my first was born, when he was in 2012. So I mean, I think motherhood and any kind of parent experience does that to you. Everything just shifts. Someone warned me when I was pregnant they're like nothing's ever going to be the same, and I'm like all pregnant people with their first pregnancy oh yeah, sure, nothing's going to be the same, but it's so true. Nothing is the same after you have children. Everything shifts priorities, everything shifts.

Scott Barnhardt: 5:23

Yeah, changes literally 10 years in the making. That totally makes sense. Yeah, you're doing it, my friend, you're doing it. I ask everyone how do you identify creatively? And I actually love this question for the moms out there. Often I get moms who are parents of actors and I ask them how are you creative? And they're like oh, I'm not talented. I was like that wasn't the question. I actually asked how are you creative? And I know you are creative head to toe. Talk to me how do you identify now as a creative?

Robyn Baker: 6:03

So I think creativity for me when you use it as a form to like, when you perform and stuff, that's so different from how it has served me in my life and so I don't know how to answer how I identify with creativity.

Robyn Baker: 6:26

But how creativity has served me is it has been in every area when I've really struggled. It's been there for me, so it's been my outlet from day one. My childhood was difficult, so creativity was really a way to escape. So many things like being able to go on stage and pretend to be someone else for a couple hours was the most relieving part of my day because I didn't have to be me. And then it was reallyDar migrate to show me that I'm basically in the artist team from 22 minutes out, I think, for creativity wise.

Robyn Baker: 7:02

What got me through the pandemic when it first hit was creativity. Like that was all I had to figure out how am I gonna keep the kids interested? How am I gonna entertain them? What are we gonna do? How am I gonna teach them?

Robyn Baker: 7:16

And it was like none of the resources with traditional homeschooling was available, so I had to like make a bunch of stuff. I had to create a bunch of stuff and it was, I was like pulling everything out of. How can I create this? What can I do? Because if I just accepted that's not available and just said, no, we can't do that, then I'm like, well, no, there's a way I can figure this out. So I think creativity has just been, it's always been my service to myself to get me through any type of rough time in my life. I still do that. So I I still sing, but I sing because I'm like I need a release and it's not and it's. My relationship with my artistic side has really changed and I've had to figure out how that fits in my life because I'm like I'm not gonna say no to it cause I did for a long time and that really gutted me and I'm like, why, it's part of me, so I can't say no to it.

Robyn Baker: 8:14

So how does it fit into my life. So it's served me as a way to be it's therapy. When I was in treatment, several times we did art therapy so painting, drawing and I did that a lot the past couple of years. Whenever I was like I need to do something, I would paint, I would draw and I have things stored away. Yes, but it was the. I see myself creatively as someone that uses it to work through crap, work through things that are hard, and I wouldn't have said that I don't think in OSHA, I definitely don't think I would have seen it that way, but coming this far in my life and who knows what it'll, how it'll evolve as I get older, but it's been my, it's been my savior, I guess, in a way.

Scott Barnhardt: 9:05

Oh I, you know, when you, when you talk about it, in that sense you're sort of like bringing up this idea of the drivers, like what drives your creativity, what sort of what really is in that driver's seat, and I think for many, even though we don't talk about it, it is that idea of self-expression, life enrichment, it's the thing that helps us make sense of the world. That in many ways does not make sense, especially to a youngster. So I that that's really interesting. I I agree with you. There are aspects of my drivers that I don't think I really, even though they were fully at play at 16, 17, 18, I don't know that I could have put voice to them.

Scott Barnhardt: 9:47

So, that's, that's really interesting. Okay, I want to. We're going to dive in. I saw that Facebook post. I saw that Facebook post a few weeks ago. You were announcing that you were starting your masters at Brown, which is like also so excited, and I loved how you tied this whole story together. But you mentioned for your undergrad you would apply to the BFA and musical theater program at NYU. So at I and you received a rejection letter and you said that it was one of the lowest moments of your life and has haunted you ever since. Same girl, same.

Scott Barnhardt: 10:30

I absolutely experienced that same rejection from what I presumed to be the end, all be all dream school. I thought, I genuinely thought, even though I had done zero research, this was, that's what was going to make me, that's what was going to validate me as an actor. So I know I internalized a lot of pain because of that rejection. I didn't really know how to talk about it, and so that's why that's why we're here today and I think we're not alone. I think a lot of people silently take a rejection from a school, a dream school, and they let it be a final verdict about their talent, their intelligence, their worthiness, which is wild, because if you actually know anything about admissions, it's often a complete lottery. So the whys of the rejections are they're not clear cut, so it's wild. So I'm curious. I want to go take us back to that moment for you and we'll sort of compare notes, as it were. Why do you think, why do you think that moment was so impactful for you?

Robyn Baker: 11:41

I think because, just like you said, it was like everyone's like NYU, that's the school. You got to get in that one Cause they have the best program, they have the best musical theater program, and it was just like. It was like this Mecca, right, it was like this place that if you got into it it was your, the deal was sealed. So it was like I got to get in, cause if I get in, then my path is set. I'm going to do this, I'm going to be able to do that, I'm going to. Everything will be all lined up, the ducks will be in a row, and so I just put so much emphasis on that.

Robyn Baker: 12:17

So I going back to when I heard the rejection, I think the hardest part for me was, if I really look back at when my eating disorder started. It wasn't that point, it was before that. So I had already started really struggling with different aspects of anorexia before that, in the fall of my senior year, and I think, just the pressure of it being the fourth year being an OSHA, figuring out what the heck I'm going to do next, where am I going? All the unknowns, all the things that were out of my control in my life, living at home with an alcoholic father, that wasn't safe. Going to school where it was your judge every second and you get critiqued every second, that's not safe. So the whole everything just kind of started piling on and not getting enough sleep because I lived in Roland Heights near Diamond Bar, so my commute wasn't staying.

Robyn Baker: 13:19

So I would have zero period. I'd get there at 60 feet, which meant I have to look. I'd wake up at 430 in the morning, and so so it was. It was, it was to be traffic, and I was driving myself at that point and a carpool. So I would. I was responsible for other people's lives. I have 430 in the morning.

Scott Barnhardt: 13:38

Yeah, we would drive like around 530.

Robyn Baker: 13:41

You know I was a high school senior side to get my hair perfect, my makeup perfect, et cetera. So that took me a while to get ready. Nowadays they'd be like forget it, I'm just like really out of bed, whatever. But anyway, so it was. It was my eating disorder, because of all this had already been in motion for a little bit and then so I was already pretty fragile at that point.

Robyn Baker: 14:03

Yeah, and then I got the news when we were touring with kids next door and we were in Las Vegas, and so my parents I think it was like in between a performance or something they caught me at the hotel and told me, and I was not prepared for them to tell me that and I was. I almost thought to myself like why are they telling?

Sara Cravens: 14:21

me now.

Robyn Baker: 14:23

I'm in the middle of like go on stage now. Like what and I want to cry, but I think because I'm in the middle of the day, but I think because I was already struggling so much with all the pressure, all the just so much stuff and then hearing that was just like a huge, just big gut punch, because in my mind it would, that was, like I said, the only way to what I wanted.

Scott Barnhardt: 14:50

Yeah.

Robyn Baker: 14:50

And so if that was a no, that meant to me it. My voice told me I was not good enough, I was ugly. My eating disorder would tell me I was fat, I was like all these bad things that you know.

Robyn Baker: 15:07

I'm not saying fat is bad, but my eating disorder would say you should have lost more weight because they probably liked you more if you were skinnier. All these things. That aren't true, that I know now, but it was just like all this stuff. So that really escalated my eating disorder at that point because that was such a huge like all of my self-worth was based on the external validation yeah and for it to be no, it was like, well, you're a piece of crap, you don't deserve anything and you should really just stop what you're doing because you suck. So that's basically what was told to me from that. That was. That was why that was such a huge gut punch for me.

Scott Barnhardt: 15:49

And I think when, when we like even go a little deeper into this thing comparison to everyone's, like, why do you focus on just the creative arts in your work? And I was like, because it's different, because it's literally different because of this aspect, this idea that a rejection is, is we, as artists, we identify with our work, we identify literally with our bodies that walk into the rooms for auditions. That's what gets put on the line. So when there is a rejection, it's different.

Sara Cravens: 16:23

It hits different.

Scott Barnhardt: 16:25

It's not a GPA, it's not an SAT score, it's literally you in the room and and it gives fodder for this sort of negative chatter, this idea that we, we build these false equivalencies to what the rejection means. Same, I was like you're not a good singer, you'll never be on Broadway, you're too short, you're too ugly.

Robyn Baker: 16:50

Like same, and it's well, because I don't know that I Like what's wrong with me, right, that's. That's the question. Like what was wrong with me. What could I've done better? What? Why am I bad? Was like always like what, what? What could I've just changed about me to be acceptable?

Scott Barnhardt: 17:07

Versus the idea that you were always worthy to go to NYU. It was a numbers game, or it it wasn't a good culture match, or there are so many, actually far more logical reasons why neither of us went to NYU or were accepted to NYU. Yet I think, at that really tender age 17, 18, it's. It requires guidance, it requires some other external voices helping move this along. Ooh, ooh. I mean, I've never I don't think I've ever really talked this deeply about this topic, and it's it's, it's, it's wild. I am curious, like this validation piece, and I know, like, if I'm not mistaken, your eating disorder soon thereafter sent you into treatment. Like, did, did the eating disorder disrupt your academic path and and even your artistic path moving forward? Did this sort of like, did the snowball start to fall down the mountain in a particular way? Like, was this a real defining point for for that?

Robyn Baker: 18:23

It was. And sorry if I'm crying because it's still hard to think about this, because something I've been grieving for a very long time is the fact that so much of my life got altered and changed because of my eating disorder, and that's why I'm so passionate about helping people not even develop them in the first place.

Sara Cravens: 18:45

Yeah.

Robyn Baker: 18:47

Because, like I said, I think it was already developing to begin with when I was auditioning for schools. So it took away my energy. When I would do the dance part for musical theater departments I didn't have the energy. I didn't have the energy to keep my breast support, like it physically. It robbed me of so much stuff and then I kept auditioning for schools and I kept getting rejected because it kept getting worse and worse and worse and with each rejection it just got worse.

Scott Barnhardt: 19:14

Yeah.

Robyn Baker: 19:15

So I had to miss two months of my senior year because I was at the UCLA psychiatric ward, which I love using against my kids saying I was in the looney bin, so don't mess with me on the lighter note.

Scott Barnhardt: 19:33

So I can tell myself it's okay, it's okay.

Robyn Baker: 19:36

So I did have to miss some school. Luckily they let me do my academics while I was there. They had a whole classroom set up. I got my school stuff delivered there and I graduated on time. But one of the one of the a very poignant memory I have was when I was there and two of them actually two of them one of them was knowing that my parents came back and they, when they were visiting one time, they told me that I didn't get accepted to all the other ones I auditioned for which I was kind of like. I kind of figured that out at that point because I was like not in a good place. And then they brought the form to help me fill out to get into Cal State, fullerton.

Robyn Baker: 20:17

And it was like I was there in the dining hall with them filling out what I needed to sign and stuff, and they just basically fit off the rest for me because I was just so like, just not there, but it was still like you're still going to college. You know, it was very interesting now that I look at it as like you still have to go to college instead of like why don't you take a break?

Scott Barnhardt: 20:35

type of thing.

Robyn Baker: 20:37

The other thing that was really that has stuck to me forever was that my two science teachers, my two favorite science teachers drove all the way to UCLA from Los Altos to visit me Because I was even back then I was very into science, which makes sense now.

Scott Barnhardt: 20:52

Totally makes sense.

Robyn Baker: 20:53

So they and I love my chemistry teacher, I love my oceanography teacher. I was just like science, science, science. But they came up and visited me when I was in treatment and that was like a big like wow, they really care about me, like they really like I've made an impact in their classroom. They took the time to drive up to LA to visit me for an hour.

Scott Barnhardt: 21:13

Yeah.

Robyn Baker: 21:15

So that was huge to me. I was in school, yeah, I graduated. I, you know I I still did pretty good even with all of that going on. But I think the thing that really was hurtful was I didn't know how to, how to do theater, how to act, how to do anything. When I got out of treatment, because I was still in a recovery phase, I was just numb. I felt I just couldn't experience emotions because I was still pretty underway. I couldn't access that part of myself. And I got into the musical theater program at Cal State Fullerton. I auditioned, I got into their BFA program there. So that was a huge, big moment for me.

Robyn Baker: 21:59

But I was still very much in my eating disorder and even my husband, like two days ago, he said something to the fact that he was at Cal State Fullerton with me. He's like you were just a zombie. You were just a walking zombie Like you like didn't talk to anybody, I didn't have any friends, like I didn't really socialize with anybody. So my college experience was really strange. I still did shows outside of school. I still didn't show that school, but it just didn't feel that space that it did before in me when I wasn't in my eating disorder and I still. This is why I get sad is because I feel like it did. It robbed me of all those opportunities it brought me, of being able to fully immerse myself in that again. And by the time I recovered I was. I changed my major to kinesiology because and that was my changes to kinesiology was 100% my eating disorder, 100% my eating disorders decision.

Scott Barnhardt: 22:56

Really.

Robyn Baker: 22:57

Not my decision. 100% my eating is first decision. I'm pretty grateful for it now, but it was not my choice. I had started learning about exercise and, of course, with eating disorders, compulsive and extreme exercise is a big piece. So I was compulsively exercising, started taking into recycling classes. The first time it was popular because now it's popular again, but it was popular a long time ago. Thank you. Thank you for that. Oh gee, thank you, yes, yes.

Scott Barnhardt: 23:28

Everything 90s is coming back, kids.

Robyn Baker: 23:30

Seriously right, so weird. So I changed my major because I wanted to have an excuse to exercise more. Wow. My eating disorder wanted an excuse to exercise more and to be a personal trainer and to be like well, I have to like, look this way and I have to be this size and I have to exercise as much, because I'm a personal trainer now, and so it was an easy way for me to hide my eating disorder and still practice it and still be in it with a professional cloud over it.

Scott Barnhardt: 24:03

Yeah, because it comes with a degree Exactly Wow.

Robyn Baker: 24:08

So yeah, that was never my choice and so, yeah, it's hard because I'm like I look at it and I'm like God, why did I do that? But I'm like, okay, I kind of been grateful I did it, but it's still like it haunts me A lot of it, like all of this haunts me.

Scott Barnhardt: 24:23

Yeah.

Robyn Baker: 24:24

So then you can't go back. No, you can only go forward, you know.

Scott Barnhardt: 24:28

And you are. I mean, yeah, as we've, as we'll get into as well, robin, like this share is. I genuinely I'm so grateful that my these listeners are going to be able to hear this part of the tale because, while part of this is cautionary, I also think this is as we continue on this conversation. It's also a trying to get to the point where I'm like, okay, I'm going to go back. It's also a triumphant conversation, absolutely.

Scott Barnhardt: 24:57

I think the other big piece we're often talking about college is like y'all, it's not that deep. I mean it has consequence, but it it doesn't define your entire life. It doesn't define your career choices.

Scott Barnhardt: 25:13

It's a space for exploration. So I also grieve with you the idea of like not feeling like you were able to explore, like you weren't able to, that you're. Eating disorder did rob you of of some of those skills, but I'm I'm similarly thrilled to watch you now find exploration in an academic setting, because it's it's never too late and that's it's fascinating because I do think going back to our drivers if at a younger age, having those resources to help you identify your drivers early, so that you are actually aware of what you're doing, how you're doing, why you're doing I think is is is important Absolutely. Well, you did sort of name and and I don't want to make light of the idea that your ED sort of led you to this path of kinesiology, but you also said you're grateful for it. What about kinesiology really worked for you? Like what did you take that you're grateful for in terms of learning kinesiology?

Robyn Baker: 26:25

I like it's been so applicable for so many areas of my life and I think discovering that I truly one of my main drivers with creativity is also helping people being able the the beauty I had when I had my own business with yoga and Pilates and personal training was the ability to have. I had clients for like 10 plus years and some of them became like second parents to me. Yeah, I was, I was, I became a, I was a bridesmaid at one of their weddings. I mean, it was like I really developed so many amazing relationships with people and I feel like using that piece and how can I use my creativity with my degree really helped me figure out how to work with people. And then, when I think one of the main reasons I'm really grateful for it is that right after my son was my first child was born, my husband lost his job and it was like If I had not had my kinesiology degree and had like built this clientele and I started my own business, I don't know like how I would have like going from job to job. I know it's possible, but it's so much more stressful. And so I look back and I'm like I know me, I don't do well with unpredictability, and so what? Oh my God. So I'm like I like predictability, I like stability, and that piece of performing was always just like I can't like that's hard for me and so knowing that's still hard for me, even after how many years of therapy, I'm just grateful I did that for myself, for the person I am who likes predictability, because I had that safety cushion for myself to like I have this resource where I have clients, I have an income coming in, I can do this and we can stay afloat, and so that that's there's.

Robyn Baker: 28:43

Many times I've been grateful for it because of the stability of it and that I also found a way to not be judged for. You can be judged in physical fitness, definitely for what you look like, but my knowledge was kind of the overwriting like factor of how I succeeded and not oh, you don't look the right part for this and I don't know how I could. I've done a ton of work on myself and I still think of like if I went into a room and was judged on that and I wasn't the right, look for something that still hurts. I can't do that Because my a while ago my husband was like why don't you try?

Robyn Baker: 29:25

This is before the pandemic. Why don't you try like auditioning for a stuff and I'm like I walk myself through it and I hear the word no because you don't look right for this and I don't think it will still feel good with me. It will still hurt. I don't if I don't have to put myself in that room. I don't want to put myself in that room anymore, because hearing the word no for things like that still is hard. So that's why, again, grateful for the choice.

Scott Barnhardt: 29:55

Yeah.

Robyn Baker: 29:58

Yeah, I just I still have a hard time with that and I say, that's okay, let's make a different choice. That's not going to do that.

Scott Barnhardt: 30:05

And that, to me, equates to like we, as adults, we do not have to pin our entire lives on the dreams of a 16 year old.

Robyn Baker: 30:14

Right.

Scott Barnhardt: 30:14

We get agency week. Funny enough, like I feel the same way about being an actor. People are like oh, you were, you were successful, you've done all the things like and true, but I, I so appreciate the stability and the control I have over my day to day life. Like don't hate the player, hate the game. Being an actor means letting go of control and allowing others to choose your daily schedule who you're working with, when you're working, and for some it's well worth it, and for others it's not.

Scott Barnhardt: 30:51

And that's where, again, I think there's another aspect of creativity. It's like, well, how can you then still use these performance skills, these empathy skills, these skills of human connection.

Sara Cravens: 31:03

Everywhere.

Scott Barnhardt: 31:03

You can buy them anywhere, and often find great, great success and life affirming activities that you can apply them to, and I know that's what's happened to me in this business. The idea of entrepreneurship it sort of actually makes me. It tickles me when you're like, yeah, but it's really stable. I was like I love that entrepreneurialism, for you was stable.

Robyn Baker: 32:32

It's so stable.

Scott Barnhardt: 32:34

Fair, but it is Anything more stable. It's wild, but I just I love that that there are places where our bravery feels very, very natural and it sounds like for you that entrepreneurial space. Your bravery was just like oh yeah, I got this piece.

Robyn Baker: 32:51

Well, creating a website that's creative, like and that was that was super fun for me. I was like oh, this is awesome and I love this. It's so funny that you bring that up, because I didn't even think about that. But yeah, it is very unpredictable, I guess, because again you're not being like told no, you're not right for this part. It's like someone can say you know, I don't like your business because your prices are too high. That's not about you. Yes, right.

Scott Barnhardt: 33:14

You can change that.

Robyn Baker: 33:15

That's easy to change, Like you can't change your height, you can't. Just, you know, like so it's, that's where it's like. I can change these things if they don't work. I can't change this if my body or my height or my hair color or my size or whatever, if it doesn't work because it's me. So that's where it's like. The personal side is like that's okay, you can. You can tell me you don't like how my business is set up, that's fine, because I can't. I don't take it personally.

Scott Barnhardt: 33:43

Yep, oh, it's so, so cool and it's, it's it. I think that is the adulting process, of like getting to know what what really works for you, where do you thrive? And it might be different than what your 16 year old self thought permission for. That I'm actually just because I know how passionate you are. Will you tell us a little bit about you moving into public health? What draws you to the subject? How do you think it might influence your creativity?

Robyn Baker: 34:13

I think being a mom has really influenced my passion to do this. Yeah, going through there's there. There were some early health issues with my son and then seeing like, wow and I mean this was even back when I was in treatment and stuff how insurance like was just a nightmare, and working with a friend that was actually going into public health with to figure out how to navigate my insurance bill so that I actually didn't have to like pay the things and like use the right words, and I was like, wow, that's interesting how you can kind of get around things. So that was always a thing in the back of my head and I think also. So my business originally was was a fitness studio that focused on helping people that were recovering from an eating disorder and wanted to establish a new relationship with movement and exercise.

Robyn Baker: 35:04

Because that piece when I was in treatment was never fully addressed and so stumbling through that piece, which was a huge piece for me, was really hard and I didn't really have anyone helping me through that and so and I found that was to be the case with a lot of people recovering so I was like, well, how can I help people with this? Because this definitely is a thing that needs to be addressed. So it was. I mean, there is a lot. I went to much so much of a rabbit hole with that and figuring out, okay, like, what is the broader picture with eating disorder recovery, and that was a huge driver for me in just the health space to begin with. And so before the pandemic, I was always like I just want to destroy the BMI. It doesn't help anybody, it's horrible. It's based on. It was created by a white man, by a mathematician. It's based on white men bodies. There aren't bodies of color that this is based on. This is just racist. It's everything. That's just bad.

Robyn Baker: 36:09

And we're using it to diagnose people. This is messed up, so I was always on this like well, how can I destroy the BMI?

Scott Barnhardt: 36:22

That's the mission statement.

Robyn Baker: 36:24

That was the mission statement and so I thought maybe I got like a really high up job at like 24 Fitness or something. Then I could like destroy it within that company and then go to the next company and destroy it in the next company. It was like I'm like on this like mission to destroy it, and I was like, no, I got to go bigger and so so. And then I was like I was thinking about like public health for a while, because I'm like I don't want to be a therapist, because that's like damage control, Because you're already helping someone that has gone through, and I'm like I don't want to do that, I want to fix it at the problem. So that was already kind of a thought.

Robyn Baker: 36:59

And then the pandemic hit and it was like my business shut down, Everything was shut down. I had to like really think what is happening with my life here? What am I going to do? So I viewed this pause as a time to really reassess everything that I was doing so in so many ways, even though the pandemic completely just changed every single aspect of my life. Again grateful for it, Grateful for the pause, Grateful for the moment to be like what am I doing? And so I just just watching everything unfold, and always I still keep track of everything, because that's just what I do. I think it's a control. My friend states a control issue. I agree it's a control issue. That's just what I do. I like control. So knowing data, knowing facts, gives me a sense of control, even though I may not be in control, it gives me a sense.

Robyn Baker: 37:49

So the miscommunication that happened within public health, how it got politicized, Everything, all of that stuff that divided us from where we were all as one people, we were like we're going to get through this, we're all this one, we're going to work through this. And then crap happened and people split off and people started getting angry and looking at it from my recovery of like I had to give up a lot of crap, I had to give up my freedom. Two times I went into treatment two times. I had to go through this and I had to let go of my old life both times. And seeing people getting upset, like because they couldn't go do something, I'm like dude, this isn't that big of a deal. Like I had to like literally like give people my shoelaces because I couldn't keep shoelaces with me. I had to wear shoes that didn't have shoelaces Like because they were worried of you know what might happen with shoelaces in a psychiatric ward. So I think it was easier for me to move through this because I've been through similar things.

Robyn Baker: 38:52

But I also have the knowledge that you can't go back, you can only go forward, and that's always kind of been ever since I first went into treatment. I was like you can only go forward, you can't go back. So how do we change? This is an opportunity to rebuild something different, something new, something better. So what frustrates me is that we as a society, as the whole, like in the whole world, we just decided we weren't really gonna do that.

Robyn Baker: 39:21

And I understand why because I was there and I would have left. I would love to go back, yeah. So for me there's a lot of what I've learned in my past life and what I wanna bring to public health to be like hey, you know, this is where we're at. Let's be honest, let's tell the truth and let's help people and let's make everything equitable, because there is so much inequity in healthcare and it just drives me crazy and hearing stories from so many different economic levels of friends in my life of where people are and how everyone thinks they have it the worst, and it's like, well, so and so here and so and so here. So it's like we really need to change how we do things.

Scott Barnhardt: 40:12

And, and that is systemic. Like changing the systems, like knowing, like when my mom passed away, I was her medical advocate and her nurse and I had the benefits and the privilege to do that, but it came at a great cost and it emotional and financial, and like time and focus, and I wouldn't trade it for the world. But like seeing, in that regard and this is why I'm like fight on Robin, fight on the amount of advocacy I had to do on my mom's behalf, the amount of double, triple, quadruple checking choices, insurance bills, like it is a full time job to even manage it, let alone thrive within it, and barely survive in it. So I applaud you in this, want to like, rattle it, change it.

Robyn Baker: 41:14

I'm like I'm just one person, but if I can do something, I'm gonna try my hardest because your story is so not alone. Like I have mom friends that tell me the same thing, that have children that are on the spectrum and getting services, and like just the amount of work that they have to do is ridiculous. It's a lot of work and this should be easier, it shouldn't be so difficult and it should be accessible to everybody, because it's not.

Robyn Baker: 41:47

It's not, and that's. I want equality for everybody type of person and there's just, there's so many layers, it's just it's mind numbing and sometimes I'm like, okay, I gotta take a break and read a Phantom fan fiction novel for a little bit so my mind can like not like get angry anymore, which I do a lot. Balance.

Robyn Baker: 42:07

I know I'm like wait it's gonna escape in my book and just read about Phantom of the Opera for a little bit. So I can be okay, but I just feel like we can't keep going on like this, like this is not sustainable for our children, it's not sustainable for anybody at this point. And so I just I think about my kids and, like God, when they're my age, what is this world gonna be like? Where are we gonna be at? And so I'm always thinking like how can I prepare them, how can I do the best I can to make the world as safe as accessible for them, for their friends, for all the children? Because for my, I'm just like. I think this is where my parents kind of influenced me. They were both in education, so they cared a lot about the future, generations, about kids, and I'm the same way. I'm just like what, what are we leaving them?

Scott Barnhardt: 42:56

Like what is what mess is this?

Robyn Baker: 42:58

This is just. It's just a mess.

Scott Barnhardt: 43:02

And so you're cracking open the books and getting in the trenches.

Robyn Baker: 43:07

Right yeah.

Scott Barnhardt: 43:08

Yeah, I'm very excited. How long is your program? Two years, three years, or is it open?

Robyn Baker: 43:13

I opted to do part time because I'm like there's no way there we go. I'm in a homeschool them and be able to do full time. So it's gonna take, I think it's. I think it's four years for for part time, which is I'm like they were when I told them I was gonna change to part time. They're like what's gonna take four years and I'm like the time's gonna pass anyway. So what's your point?

Scott Barnhardt: 43:37

I'll have an eight year old instead of a six year old, like it's fine.

Robyn Baker: 43:40

Right, four years goes by like that. You're talking to a mama three If four years is gone with a blink of an eye, so it's fine, I'm fine. Four years is not a big deal.

Scott Barnhardt: 43:51

I wanna. I wanna step into another sort of question. I'm curious Again. You've worked in many fields and you've utilized a lot of different skills and parts of your brain and I think honestly what I advise with a lot of young creatives kids in high school is realizing like the employment opportunities, the traditional pipeline to employment is changing radically.

Scott Barnhardt: 44:20

It's changing via AI, via global warming, via political needs Like how people get jobs and how people get paid is changing, and I can guarantee it will be different in five years, but I can also guarantee no one knows how. So one of the key aspects to studying any sort of creative major is realizing that you need this adaptability, this perseverance, this ability to pivot, like having the ability to pivot is actually probably one of the greatest abilities to get hired in the future. So you're a pivoter, I'm a pivoter.

Robyn Baker: 45:05

Do you have any Thanks to improv Thanks improv?

Scott Barnhardt: 45:07

yes, and Do you have an idea of like, what sort of like? What pivoting skills you've garnered through these different career paths? How have they served you? Do you have any idea of what the common thread is for you that's helped you pivot?

Robyn Baker: 45:27

Oh gosh, I think a lot of it has to just deal with mindfulness, listening to your intuition. A lot of it. I mean set aside my decision for kinesiology, which again I will say that was 100 percent my eating disorders choice, but at the end of the day I am grateful for it. Yeah, everything else.

Robyn Baker: 45:51

After that, there's a book, gosh I can't remember his name now, but he said intuition is like a balloon with a string. It floats around and if you can hold onto it or grab onto the tape, it's like a kite or something, a kite string If you can hold onto it and allow it to lead you to where you need to go. By saying yes, which is again improv by saying yes to so many when things show up and you take a moment and they sit right with you and you just say, yes, I'm going to try and I'm going to let go. This is the letting go that I'm so good at. I'm going to let go of any attachment or expectations on myself and I'm going to allow my intuition to let me say yes and guide me to it. I think that is really my through line, with so many things. I was not expecting to get into Brown Like I honestly wasn't. I was just like there's an end for public health online. I had to present online cool on my Instagram feed.

Robyn Baker: 47:01

I should look into that. And here I am and I was just like, oh, I should look into that and like make an appointment to talk and like learn more about it. I'll just learn more about it, it's okay. And then, as I kept feeling good about it, because I let my intuition guide me, I was like I'm going to say yes to this, I'm going to say yes, I'm going to apply, I'm going to say yes, I'm going to try and let go of the attachment, which was really hard to do, like I said in that post, because it was like God, am I really going to let myself, am I going to open up that wound again?

Robyn Baker: 47:33

Am I going to let myself be vulnerable enough to be exposed and be okay with being told no again, I guess. So I'm like I have nothing to lose at this point and I think so much. I'm like Craig, so much for being a parent and being able to be with my kids every day and showing them like if you don't try, it's always going to be a no and it's always you're never going to get anywhere If you don't try. We see the words to our kids that we need to say to ourselves, right.

Scott Barnhardt: 48:07

Yeah.

Robyn Baker: 48:08

And so, all right, I'm going to cry again. Bring it on More room on the outside, so many, so many of the things that I've told my kids over these past, especially these past three years, have been things that I wanted my parents to say, or I wanted to hear myself.

Scott Barnhardt: 48:26

Yeah.

Robyn Baker: 48:28

And so saying it to them really solidified it in me too.

Sara Cravens: 48:35

Yeah.

Robyn Baker: 48:35

So healing myself was really being the parent that I really wish I had, hearing the words I wish I had heard, and then when I say them, I'm saying them to myself and I am really parenting myself. So when I decided to apply, it was a big like what would you tell your kids? What would you tell your son? What would you tell your daughter? What would you tell them? You tell them go for it. What have you got to lose if you don't apply? It's going to be a no. If you don't apply, you might as well why not? So I just was like well, if that's what I'm going to tell them, I better walk the walk right.

Scott Barnhardt: 49:15

Yeah.

Robyn Baker: 49:16

And I owe a lot to them, to being a parent, to so much that I've learned over these past years. I've been in therapy for a long time and, honest to God, being a parent is probably one of the more challenging things. That is also the most healing thing that I've ever done. So I could have done all the therapy in the world, but having the three kids, I think, really healed a lot in me and made me walk the walk.

Scott Barnhardt: 49:47

Yeah it put it all into action.

Robyn Baker: 49:49

It sounds like it really did.

Scott Barnhardt: 49:51

That's wow.

Robyn Baker: 49:53

It's a big fire. I think when you have kids, it lights a fire under your butt to do the right thing a lot more times Because they're watching, they're listening and they know. And it's like if you're telling them to do something and you don't do it yourself, they're going to see that and they're not going to take you seriously. They hold me accountable. They don't know it, but they do.

Scott Barnhardt: 50:16

No doubt that is so like such a beautiful full circle moment and I'm really glad and again, just grateful to hear it directly from you, this cognition of it, this seeing it, the ability to walk the walk, and I think it's wild Because, again, I'm constantly talking with these 17, 18 year olds- and it's same.

Scott Barnhardt: 50:46

I'm often trying to share with them the thing that I wish I had heard at that age, and I think that is also a sign of creativity and empathy and relearning that the know is tolerable, that the know is not actually defining, that the know is actually nothing to be scared of. There's a lot in it. But if you really look at it from that lens, if only 17 and 18 year old Scott and Robin could have heard like try for it.

Sara Cravens: 51:24

Who cares if you get a know Like you can find.

Scott Barnhardt: 51:28

It's a really magical thing to relearn it now.

Robyn Baker: 51:32

So rock on. Yeah, I think it takes a lot to learn that, though, and I think expecting teenagers to understand that is putting a lot on them. I know, I think back of not even that, just scenes and acting monologues and stuff that we were supposed to understand and fully embody and understand emotionally, and I'm like there's no way I could have understood that. And now I look at certain acting scenes or monologues and I'm like, wow, I really get that. Now I feel like I could really embody that so much better, and we're asking these teenagers to understand what it means, and we're asking them to understand that it's going to be OK if you don't get something, and it's a lot to expect of them.

Scott Barnhardt: 52:21

Yeah, but I think that's all the more reason why the language around these conversations, especially with 17, 18-year-olds even if they do not fully understand it or fully embrace it, the language used matters Because it's what will allow them the ability to let go of it, to not internalize the pain, to not internalize that, the obstacles, and actually see the larger goal, to realize that again. It's not like the rejection still would not hurt. It's more a matter of hopefully they'll have a few more tools and conversations or access to conversations that will allow them to work through it in a way that doesn't impede on their journey.

Robyn Baker: 53:15

Right, absolutely.

Scott Barnhardt: 53:17

So interesting. I do always talk finance. I'm curious, well, because college is a financial investment.

Robyn Baker: 53:27

Absolutely.

Scott Barnhardt: 53:28

It can be wildly expensive. It can also be wildly affordable. So I ask everyone through their lens do you think you overspent, underspent or got it just right? And maybe, like any explanation about loans, scholarships, merit-based aid, need-based aid, Like, how did that play out for you?

Robyn Baker: 53:51

So I was very lucky in that my parents had set aside a college fund for me and so I didn't have to worry about CalSTIC. And again, at the end of the day, I think that was a good choice, because I was still able to get into the VFA program that I wanted to get. I got into a VFA program.

Robyn Baker: 54:13

And that was pretty much the goal in OSHA. But I didn't have to pay an arm and a leg to go out of state, which was also nice. Well, they didn't have to pay, I should say.

Scott Barnhardt: 54:25

Didn't come out of the fund.

Robyn Baker: 54:27

It didn't come out of the fund and I did get some scholarships through. I did some singing scholarship things that I got, which was good, I think, for me now that I applied for grad school and I'm like I got to pay this and, of course, when I'm looking into it after the Instagram ad for it, I'm not even thinking about how much it's going to cost, because I'm silly and that for a while. About doing a different online program, because there's a lot of online public health programs now.

Sara Cravens: 55:01

And I was very surprised to hear that.

Robyn Baker: 55:04

But I was like I really want to go here because of their history, of what they offer, and so we met the need base. Because we are a single income family. I don't know how we make ends meet still, but we do. We figured out I get a lot of keep on so we don't spend a lot of money on unnecessary things. I'm doing student loans and so being part time it spreads it out a little bit more, which is nice. So it is what it is. My husband's so wonderful. He's like we'll make it work, we'll figure it out, don't worry about it, we'll pay it back over time. I feel like we've been through so much as a couple, as a family, financially. It's kind of made me a little bit more like we'll figure it out mindset.

Scott Barnhardt: 55:53

Yeah.

Robyn Baker: 55:54

It's not. We're not so deep in the whole word. It's like, oh my gosh, what are we going to do? So I don't feel like I'm overspending on it because for me, it's like it's the chance for me to really do my next step when I'm graduated. So, yeah, I don't think I overspent, and need-based loan was very accessible for me, which I'm very grateful for. So I'm grateful for being through a lot of financial hardship times. To be like this isn't a big deal.

Scott Barnhardt: 56:24

I got this. I got this.

Robyn Baker: 56:26

This is easy.

Scott Barnhardt: 56:29

Beautiful and that actually is a benefit of going to school at an older age, where you do have some context of what you're signing up for versus, I think, many younger folk. That is a very key blind spot. So I like that. I like that a lot, yeah, all right. Final question this has been so lovely, but I ask everyone this because I love this question of reflection what's the one thing you wish you had understood about the college application process before you started? What advice would you have given your 17-year-old OSHA self now?

Robyn Baker: 57:09

It'll all work out. Yeah, I probably wouldn't believe myself that have fun, I think, would also be a big one. I think for me and I I think a lot of people get into performing. My kids love to dance. They do it because it's fun, yeah, and I think at some point you lose that because you're worried about the next thing. You're worried about if you're going to get into the school, You're worried about if you're going to get into the show and that eats away at the fun part. And if you get in it's fun. But then you have to do it all over again in a couple months. So then it's this constant roller coaster. So it's just have fun, enjoy, live in the moment. It'll all work out if you listen to your heart, if you listen to yourself. So cheesy Disney movie moment.

Robyn Baker: 58:05

No, but it's golden advice, but it's not true. It's so true.

Scott Barnhardt: 58:10

You actually have the power. That is the one thing we all have control over is enjoying Again. It also takes me back to your balloon kite. Follow that intuition permission to fall. Oh, that's beautiful, oh, robin.

Robyn Baker: 58:28

Oh, it's Wayne Dyer that's who wrote the Power of Intuition. It's like the first introduction of that book and that really that's what made me choose to start my own business, Because I'm like, if I'm really going to listen to this, this is what I want to do and everything came. I hesitate to say this because everything came easy for me to establish my own business and I don't want to say, if everything's easy, that's what you're meant to do, and if it's hard or not meant to do it, because I feel like that's not always the case.

Scott Barnhardt: 58:58

No.

Robyn Baker: 58:59

But if it's really a struggle and you know in your heart this is what I need to do and you just keep going and going, Eventually there will be that opportunity. I feel like, and it's just following that knowing in yourself Like this is what I need to do, this is where I'm meant to be. If I let go of all the noise, what is really here?

Scott Barnhardt: 59:22

Golden advice. Golden Robin, I just can't thank you enough for this conversation, for sharing your heart, your story, your experience. I mean I've always been a big, big fan of you, but even more so now. I mean this was really, really powerful, your magic. Congrats on this next bit of your creative college journey going to Brown, and I can't wait to see what you do to change public policy and health policy.

Robyn Baker: 59:59

Thank you, scott, no.

Scott Barnhardt: 1:00:03

That's another interview episode of the Creative College Journey podcast. We hope this episode with Robin Baker was beneficial to you and we want to thank you for taking time out of your busy day to listen. If you are in need of some encouragement, guidance and inspiration for your college journey and would like to work with Scott, don't hesitate to head to our website, wwwcreativecollegejourneycom to schedule a free, no obligation one hour consultation to find out the many ways the Creative College Journey can help you on your path. You can also find Scott Barnhart on Instagram at Scott Barnhart. If you enjoy the show, please rate and review us on Apple Podcast. Truly, it helps others find us, and be sure to come back in the coming weeks for more discussions about creative college admissions, lowering the temperature on the process and the many industry pathways and transferable skills that a creative education and life can offer. Don't forget it's not where you go to school, but how you go to school that counts. Thank you.