Welcome to the Creative College Journey podcast, the place to help raise awareness on the many pathways to a creative life and education and how college might be a part of it, because it's not where you go to school, but how you go to school that counts. Hosted by professional, creative and college expert, scott Barnhart, who is chatting with a variety of guests who have some amazing lived experiences from different universities, majors and creative industry interests, and we hope by hearing their stories it might help give you some inspiration to find your own Creative College Journey.

Hi friends, welcome to the first podcast back in 2024. I am excited to do something a little bit different today. Earlier in this year I had the great fortune to be interviewed. The tables turned. I was interviewed with a great organization called School Match for you. They have this lovely podcast called your College Bound Kid podcast. Now, if you're in the market for college podcasts, you know this is like the podcast. They do two episodes a week and cover so much information in really beautiful and diverse ways. I'm a fan of that podcast and was thrilled to get the chance to collaborate with them and have a chat specifically about creative college admissions and admissions for the performing arts. So I thought I would share here on this podcast, that interview. So today you're going to hear me get interviewed.

I want, before we get into that interview, I just want to thank the amazing team at your College Bound Kid podcast and School Match for you, namely Mark Stucker and Dr Lisa Roff, who interviewed me. Go check them out. Go check out their information, their services. They're also independent educational consultants. They do full service. I love their mission or their slogan. Their slogan is the best school is the one that brings out the best in your child, and I couldn't agree more. It's nice when you find those colleagues out in the world that are so aligned with what you do and are really student-centric and are genuinely looking out for your student's best interests, which is very exciting, and I feel I found those peers over at School Match for you. So enjoy this interview that was released on your College Bound Kid podcast just a few weeks ago.

Hi, this is Lisa from your College Bound Kid, and today I'm very excited to be here with Scott Barnhart. Scott is a lifelong musical theater actor, theater maker and educator. He most recently served as lead faculty for the contemporary musical theater and film BFA program at Hushin College, los Angeles, and before that he was the director of musical theater at the Orange County School of Arts. Now he has his own college consulting firm, the Creative College Journey, in which he helps creative students in the performing arts and creative writing fields traverse the often rigorous and time-consuming application process in the area of study and find their best at college. He also hosts a podcast, the Creative College Journey, and he interviews successful performers about their past with success. Scott, that's a whole lot. You must have been very busy. Welcome to the podcast.

Thank you, it's nice to be here.

So I know I just you know took some stuff off your website and read it out loud, but tell us more about how your journey and how you came to be a college counselor for kids who are going to school in the creative arts.

I mean for so many of us, it's the long story of my own college journey. I was a Broadway-bound musical theater nerd, could see nothing but that path, and the worst thing that could have happened to me did I didn't get into NYU. You know, I was just like crestfallen, convinced that my career was over because a school that I had done zero research on, by the way, had said no and then cut to. I landed at what I deemed to be a safety school. That ended up being the absolute perfect match. So I sort of lucked into a match, and that match for me was a BA in theater. That was the ability to take a bunch of other classes, the ability to be close to New York City so I could start my career without being smack dab in the middle of New York City. And that really taught me that it isn't where you go to school, it's how you go to school that counts, which is sort of like the ethos of my company, which is especially for artists, for creatives. We don't have a straight line towards our goals, we don't have a straight line towards our careers. So I've really taken what I learned from my own experience as a college student and then also as a professional Broadway actor.

As an educator, I've watched time and time again that it really is the mindset of how you approach school, and really strategic planning can make all the difference in making those dreams actionable goals.

And that's really at the core of my work. It's what I'm trying to do, and so after I, when I was working at the Orange County School of the Arts, I was working with these really really talented, awesome students and watching them, who sort of had everything at their disposal in terms of training and experience, watching them lose their minds going through the process, and that's where I started to build this curriculum about, specifically for creatives and for art students, how to walk through this process with a little more ease, with a little more of their autonomy intact and understanding their goals accordingly. So it's been a long journey to get to this spot, and I think that is the creative journey is the fact that it is winding and you do find your way there, but you have to stay persistent and resilient and you have to have the ability to keep walking one step in front of the other.

Wow, that's an amazing story. So what kind of students are you working with?

right now. Predominantly I work with anyone who sort of falls under the umbrella of creative arts. So I work with performers, actors, musical theater. I work with dancers, musicians, visual artists, creative writers Anyone who just basically has to add an audition or an artistic supplement to their application. Those tend to be my folks. The other students I tend to work with are students who are maybe more interested in an academic major but want an artistic experience as well, and so helping them find schools that maybe they could either double major or minor in an artistic field, or maybe a school that has a lot of extracurricular student run programs that are of interest. So those are for the more academic-leaning students. I try to build plans and identify matches for them as well. The kids who add the A to STEAM that are really interested in creative work within maybe some STEM fields.

That's great. So I mean, you kind of mentioned that you got a BA and I'm imagining some of these more academic-focused kids would be pursuing a BA. So what is the difference between a BA and a BFA and who should go to what major, would you say?

I love this question because it's probably the most common question I get in this field is like what, well, bfa is better? Right, and to be clear, they are just different degrees. One is not necessarily better than the other. A BFA is a Bachelor of Fine Arts, a BA is a Bachelor of Arts. The quickest way to sort of differentiate them is a BFA is going to be a little more prescriptive and a little more the course requirements for a BFA, for that degree, are going to be more in line with the major. So if you're a musical theater performance major, a big portion maybe 60%, 70% of your classes are going to be directly in line with musical theater performance. Then you'll have your, you know, whatever your school liberal arts requirements are and maybe a handful of electives. But it's going to be a more prescribed road and generally they are built as pre-professional programs with some intent towards, you know, professional entry. A BA is a more exploratory degree, meaning maybe 30% or 40% of your classes are going to be in line with your major plus your liberal arts requirements, plus some more electives or some more wiggle room, so you're going to get the chance to take other courses. So to me the difference is really, a BA is going to be more exploratory. A BFA is going to be a little more prescribed.

If you have a curious mind, bas can be great options and I think especially my actors out there. I sometimes think there's a little bit of the scarcity mindset that I have to get into every acting class ever in order to prove that I'm a good actor, that I can become a professional actor. And I don't necessarily subscribe to that. I think so long as you are continuously training and conscientious about your training, you don't have to take it all in these next four years Like. This is a career that you are a lifelong learner. If you're signing up to be a professional actor, you're signing up to be a lifelong learner. So I like to let students sort of think about ooh, how might that religion class really influence your performance? How might that extra philosophy or history class? Or maybe you have a significant interest in another topic how can that Venn diagram come together? I think for the art students that can be really magical.

So the other thing is, if a student is interested in double majoring or minoring like seriously interested in that, considering BA programs is of high interest because you tend to have a lot more overlap in terms of the course requirements and so, even if you're a Broadway or bus like me, like I was, I wanted to sing, dance and act all day, every day. I benefited so greatly being in a BA and getting what was. I didn't actually get a minor in business, but what presumably was. I took the courses that could have been a minor in business. That helped me, as I was basically a young entrepreneur selling my wares, meaning me as an actor. That was so beneficial. Some of the best classes I took were outside of my major and I was really grateful that I had that much exposure to outside courses. So that's like the long and short of how to decipher between BA or BFA, but the big key is that one is not necessarily better than the other.

Yeah, I think that's great to know because I think people, I think I have to go to BFA or never make it in my chosen field, but you're telling me it might actually help you to branch out a little bit and become more well-rounded academically or pursue other interests as well as in your art.

Yeah, I think that's exactly it, because it's we as artists. We're the barometer of what's going on in our world. So if you're knowledgeable about the world, if you are studied in other topics, it makes you a more interesting artist. You bring that to the page or the stage or the canvas in such more interesting ways and I've seen that create success for people and traction for people because they just have something to say and that's what we want our artists to do. We want them to say something about the world. So I do. I'm biased because I went through a BA, but if you have any academic in claims, I definitely consider BAs as well as BFAs in your college list.

So now for creative Africans. They have to go through the next steps. Right, so you walk through some of the special and fun things that they get to do in addition to the regular fund of applying for college.

So it's that it's everything that every other academic student has to do for college. And so, you know, on top of all of the application needs, all the essays, most creative and performing art students they also have to do an art supplement and for actors particular, they have to go through a process called a pre-screen, where they have to film full auditions, use these videos. You know this is up to like 10 minutes of footage that you have to submit for, like the musical theater kids it's sometimes two songs, two monologues, a dance, a wild card video. You have to submit all of that usually in the month of November, so the timeline is pushed. For a creative applicant, often they have to submit all of that information plus their, you know, regular academic admission stuff. So they get a quick send, then they wait to hear if they get a callback. So then sometime in December I'm generalizing the timeline Sometime in December, early January, they get notification whether or not they've moved to the next round and then they're invited to in-person auditions where or sometimes virtual auditions or sometimes considered on tape, and they are then asked to then go through another round of auditions. And it's what I try to let people know why it's different and why sometimes some extra support is needed for these students is these 17, 18 year olds are putting themselves on the line, right?

Artists identify with themselves and their work. It's hard to get a no or a rejection from a school when it's about you, when it's about you walking in the room and then they go, not so much Even though the no is valid. The no is the numbers game. The no is what we're dealing with. But I watch students internalize these no's, these rejections, in ways that become really detrimental to their future lives and their future creative pursuits. It stops them dead on their tracks before they've even begun. That's really what I try to work on is not let people make these rejections or no's become their identity.

The way I did. The way I did, I was convinced my career was over because NYU said no. No, nyu said no because I wasn't it for them. That's cool, but it took many years to figure that out. I'm trying to get in front of some of these students ahead of time so that they can make plans accordingly and realize you could follow an academic path and still become a professional actor. You could go straight to the industry and become a professional actor. There are so many ways towards a creative life. That's what I find a lot of parents have a hard time with because, again, it's not linear. I have parents who go I could get my kid into med school. What is this? Bfa in acting nonsense what is this? It just requires a different level of support and a little bit of breath, a little bit of breathing through the wildness of the process.

In addition to all the emotional stuff. It's probably expensive, maybe if you have to go travel with a school in person. Also, it's not only just expensive. It's time to get to all these different additions. That's hard to plan.

I think that's the secret of when you're going through the BFA process. Often, because the schools are hyper-competitive You're looking at programs that are taking 15 to 30 students a year and getting hundreds, if not thousands, of applicants every year. You're dealing with a lottery. You're dealing with high-risk numbers. A lot of families will start with going well, let's apply to all of them. Let's apply to 40 schools. I see it happen. It becomes this law of diminishing returns where they are scattered so thin in terms of what they're after because they just want an acceptance that they actually net. Their overall average of what they net it lowers.

It's wild watching that happen, because I do think you want to be a little more strategic about the schools you're applying to and why, making sure your bandwidth is accurate. If you are doing five prescreens, 10 prescreens, 15 prescreens, you have to account for the time accordingly. Same thing in terms of in-person auditions. If you're applying to 30 schools across the nation and let's say everything goes great and you clear all your prescreens, now you have to plan 30 live auditions over the course of about six weeks, which becomes a giant headache in terms of travel cost expense, also just removing you from high school for those number of weeks. I always want families to understand what they're undertaking when they're applying to so many schools. I think there are ways to hedge your bets in a smarter way, rather than just doing the shotgun approach where you're just applying to as many as you can in the spirit of well, I just need to get into one. Not all schools are built the same from a creative point of view.

Yeah, no, my daughter's good friends from high school did that. I think I mentioned that to you a little bit earlier. She wasn't from around for almost all of her senior year and fall and early winter.

Then it was COVID, so that was the end of the year.

She really kind of missed out on that. She of course ended up at a great program, but it was just exhausting to watch. It became the magic little thing to do.

Yeah, that was part of what I experienced as a high school school of the arts administrator and director was like I was watching these students sort of miss out on major parts of their senior year because of the commitments they were making towards their college pursuits. I think there's a balance that can be struck. I think it is a major undertaking to go into these highly competitive programs and apply to them and give them your best shot. I think that requires a lot of time and commitment and seriousness, but I watch it sort of spill over into scarcity and this fear-based model that, ooh, if I don't get into one of these quote unquote elite performing programs, then it's over for me. That's what I try to help people avoid, yeah.

So how do you help people like be more strategic and narrow things down a little bit?

Yeah, so the one thing, a few things that I do one is I really try to identify the creative driver in a student and maybe even a family. What is the thing that's? These students generally spend crazy amounts of hours at school doing their art form or putting in all this extra time. You talk to a theater kid and they will easily be spending an extra 40 hours a week at school just to be a part of the school play, and so, while there's a natural idea that you're like from that, well then I should go study that in theater, I think there's sometimes a missing conversation of, like, what's driving their want to be a part of this? Is it that they want to become a better performer? Is it that they want to become famous and rich? Is it because they just like the people? Is it because they want to be an activist and change the world? Is it, like there are? There are some drivers that are sort of underneath their actions, and if you can start to identify those, you can then use that information to start to find really great matches for the student. Like, if a student just likes being around the theater folk and wants to keep it going, Juilliard's probably not a great spot for that kid right. Yet the parents might Google best theater programs for you know, in America and Juilliard's going to come up number one on the list. That doesn't mean it's a match, so it's trying to find really holistic, solid matches, you know. The other big thing is balancing a list is understanding the numbers. What schools are genuine pie in the sky reach schools? Which ones are you actually interested in? You know, looking at their curriculum, looking at what their output is and then finding some more targets and likely's that are in line with whatever the dream reach school is. Making sure that the numbers make sense, Making sure the financial numbers make sense, given a, you know, a family's need.

Considering state schools, considering community college options. I do like to have a family like really consider multiple options at their disposal. What's their direct to industry route? What would they do if the student didn't go to college and just went straight to the industry? How would you handle that? What would happen if they went to community college? What would happen if they went to a state school? What would happen if they went to a dream private school? And sort of, let all of the options be awesome. Let all of the options be something that they can be stoked about, Because I think for the creative, if you really look at it, there are many, many ways towards towards this path.

And then again, really identifying the students workload. I can see when students get. If a student leans in overwhelmed and they don't have the bandwidth to take on this extra work, it's not the time to take on this kind of extra work. In many ways that's where you start to consider a gap year. You start to consider maybe you apply one round with two or three schools and then the next year consider adding more. And this is where it really becomes case by case, where you have to look at each, Each student and each family in terms of what they need, what their interests are. But it's about getting down to brass tacks of what drives the student creatively and what could work given the students interests.

Yeah, I really love when you said about all the options be awesome, because I think even in a regular academic we're always saying love every flaw on your campus because they all have great opportunities. But sometimes that's a hard sell because people have these preconceived notions and I'm sure you want to work with creative bands.

Oh, this is the only way. So I love that you're giving them all these different options to think about. That's where your freedom in the process lies. I'm a great artist. No matter which one of these four or five I can get to wear.

And that's probably the biggest mistake I see families and students walking into this process is they're walking in, waiting for the school to validate them as an artist, and A school is not a gatekeeper to that. That is internal. That is only you. So realizing that, oh, I could go to community college and train privately. Right, I could go work with a literal Hollywood coach or a Broadway vocal coach for the same cost. Like, there are so many ways to slice and dice this that you can negotiate your way to a lot of ideas.

And, and especially for any of the any price-conscious families out there, it's Really understanding the investment and really understanding, you know, if there are limitations. I creatives live for a limitation, you know. Put, put me in a theater, give you a hundred dollars and a ball of twine and we'll figure something out. You know, we'll put on a show. That's, that is what we do. So living within limitations isn't a bad thing and it shouldn't be considered an a watch family sort of presume on some level. If they can't afford a Private four-year institution, then they are limiting their child's dreams and it's just not true. It's just not true and the students have to be trained in that regard too is to realize no, there are many ways towards this goal.

So if a student, let's say, wants to be on Broadway and you're on Broadway, so you can probably see quite well to this, they don't look at your late college resume. You're like, look at that a this kid gotten tapped in three. I mean they want to see what you do, right? I mean they're not looking your education history.

And there is truth that there are certain schools that have very strong industry pipelines. You know, there are schools like you know University of Michigan and NYU, boston Conservatory there are schools that are known for their sort of pipeline and what I always say is like a college Might get you in the door, it might open a door or two, but at the end of the day, when you're in that audition, it's what do you deliver, what can you do the job? And again it goes back to, like you know, in terms of this consumerism, you bring a skill set to a show. You Does your skill set fill what the show needs? It is transactional. So in that it's it's always trying to get people to realize like no one, no one cares where you went, they just care Can you do the job?

Yeah, and I think having families realize that that'll also be yeah there's.

There's a lot, I mean, for example, I mean I'm very well versed in sort of like musical theater and it's sort of like musical theater, I always say, is like the gauntlet that's, it's the most intensive Of the art forms out there, I think, outside of, maybe, filmmaking, where you often have to create unique films for applications. But For musical theater we'll use this as an example you have to have two, at least two contrasting songs. So with that it's actually sometimes, depending on the requirements, like two to four, because you may need A post 1970 song and a pre 1970 Broadway song and they need to be contrasting. So maybe one up tempo, maybe one ballad. So so with that you're really looking like two to four songs. You're looking for two to three 60 to 90 second monologues, two of those contemporary, post 1900, sometimes post 1940 or 1950, and then one classical, pre 1900. So that's intense, just already that alone.

And filming them, I like to say have students film at home because you have more chances to do them. There is something to hiring someone and setting up your shots in a studio, but then you're on a clock, you're sort of on a timer to get the shots and to get a good take, and I think that's actually harder than it sounds. So I often I often like have clients Work on takes over the period of a month, six weeks, where we'll try different things, even from afar, and we'll talk about what's working, what's not, and strengthen their takes as they go. There's then a dance component often, where you have to film a choreograph dance up to 60 to 90 seconds, and then the, the added pieces, the wild card, where you then have to do.

I always say it's like MTV Cribs, it's like a deer diary, video diary. It's like, hey, this is me. It's something that has nothing to do with your life as an artist and that I actually really enjoy because you can, you can really be creative, you can have a ton of fun with that. But it also stresses people out because it's like I can do anything. What do I do? So all of those things have to be prepared, as well as an artistic resume, as well as any additional artistic supplemental essays that can come along. So, on top of what any STEM student has to do, then all of this has to be added. So, timeline wise, I like artistic students to have a running list by May-June, like a strong, close to finalist, prepping materials over the summer Significantly like choosing all of your materials by June and July and then start Filming as early as September for those November 1 deadlines.

So if you apply to a program, do you have to go through this?

It depends on the yeah, it depends on the program. Some BAs do require an audition, many don't. So it really sort of varies. And then there's also some BFA programs that you don't get into until your sophomore or junior year, where you apply is almost like a regular Student, regular admin student, and you're sort of automatically joined in a BA or a certain kind of BFA program and you're not inducted into the BFA performance track until You've gone through a certain amount of classes or you. So there are some different options but there are, like you know, the UCLA BA in theater program Does require a pre-screen and then sometimes an interview, so they don't necessarily have in-person auditions but they do have sort of an interview process.

And I think of like a school, like like my alma mater, wagner College, which is a BA which does require a BFA program, wagner College, which is a BA which does require an audition but there were no pre-screens. So it varies and often with the BA programs there is an audition for additional merit scholarships. So some of the schools that I love, university of Northern Colorado I've had a lot of students go there. I also like them because they have a theater education Program as well as a BFA musical theater, and there are ways to double major in in both. I'm also a fan. I love two professors who are at this school, northern Michigan University, which is way, way up in Northern.

Michigan. I mean it. It's almost off the map, northern Michigan, but Jimmy Ludwig and Kristen Beth Williams are Broadway veterans that are at that school and I would send anyone to train with them. So the fact that that's just like one of those places that to consider to like highly consider, because there are great people Teaching there who can teach you the skills that you're after.

I also love adding University of Utah to people's lists. It's got a big school vibe. It definitely has, like the football games, the, the huge school atmosphere and they have a really lovely theater program that is very open access, lots of opportunities. They also have a theater education program that is lovely. I had a student who went from the BFA musical theater to theater education because she was drawn to it, and I had another student who is at University of Utah who's worked in four or five professional productions at Pioneer Theater, which is a professional theater that is on campus. So it's a great Opportunity and because it's also part of Wooey, the Western undergrad, western undergraduate exchange, the tuition is Chef's kiss in comparison to a lot of the other options For in-state here in California. I think the hidden gem that people don't consider is Chico State, and Chico State has a really interesting history with theater and I I love shouting out Chico State. That's fabulous. What are some great tips?

So we always ask guests on the podcast what advice they have for parents, students and for college counselors. So let's start off with parents. What advice do you have for us parents? For the parents, I would definitely say.

Let the student drive this, like this should be. I always say 80-20. 80% should be driven by the student, 20% by. You know coaches, parents, you know counselors. If it's not at that ratio or they're about pump the brakes, and it's okay to pump the brakes You're not in a rush. And I know there is just this feeling, especially in some like competitive schools, the keeping up with the Joneses about where you go to school or getting that Instagram post. I really say, really listen to your student. Are they ready for this? Are they ready for this next step? And especially for the creative students? Really consider what are your multiple options and you get to be the modeler of. Can they be stoked about this? Can they be stoked about a community college option? Can they be stoked about a straight to industry option? Be teammates. So that would be my biggest advice for parents.

Yeah, that's great advice, you know, and especially with something like a creative field, like that's a very personal thing that a student has to put their whole self into. They don't wanna do it that way or they're not ready to do it. Like that would be very hard. And I know a lot of times parents have a vision and have, you know, the smatting members of the community comments about your kid because they were just like the second lead in the play and not the first or whatever. But we kinda have to try to transcend all that and just get focused on what they want Exactly right.

What brings them to that kid and what they want. So what advice do you have for students?

For the students. It's really all about realizing that where you go to college does not define your future. Like that should be the mantra before every audition, before clicking send on every application. It's not to say that you shouldn't want it, it's not to say that you shouldn't work hard for it, but it's so much about being an artist is about process and honoring your process and figuring out your process. So the same happens here. Like and with that, it's also letting them know this is a subjective field.

There is bias in this field. There is implicit, outward bias in this field, and you are actively stepping into that. So, with that realization, in order to keep your autonomy and keep your power as an artist, you really do have to realize that you will be okay if you get a rejection. You'll be okay if you get an acceptance. Your job is just to figure out the next right step, regardless of what happens. And that it's always the biggest, like aha, that I get from students and clients Once they're in college. I got the greatest email from a former student His I think it was his second semester at Texas State in their musical theater program, which is also a great, great program, and he wrote me Mr Barnhart dude, it's just more, it's just more school. I was like you're right, it's not a magical unicorn.

It's just more school, and I love hearing that that it's just a place to learn it's that it's really not as high stakes as it is even at those industry pipeline schools it is. It's not some secret sauce, it's just more school.

That's like great. That's like great, All right. So what about for college counselors? What should we do about it?

Yeah, I think for the college counselors, I feel like when you deal with a creative student, find the yes hand, like find the way to affirm the creative impulse while still also getting underneath the motivator.

Because I think a lot of people just sort of naturally our society sort of has this idea that if you're gonna become a creative, you are signing up for a life of destitution, you're gonna be drunk at noon, like you're signing up for this life of poverty.

And we know that's actually not true and in fact, the skillsets you learn in a creative major are very often now the skillsets that are becoming the most desirable in a world of AI. You're looking for people who can read context clues. You're looking for people who communicate well, who have empathy, who have the ability to see through data in a compassionate, empathetic way. So try not to get to the finish line of like, but get in on Broadway's hard. They're just signing up for a selection of courses. So I think some counselors maybe not, it's a bit of a generalization but I think they fear what they don't know in terms of creative majors and they know it's competitive and it gets overwhelming, so they can sometimes, you know, maybe discourage that pursuit. But, that being said, it's finding the yes and and sort of figuring out the pathways and the actual matches for a student and fully acknowledging there's some specialized information in this particular world that would be worthwhile seeking out those who have that information.

Mm-hmm, absolutely. Well, listen, this has been amazing, but you're not done yet, because no guest of the college town should really get to get away about being on the hot seat. A great, hot seat when we're more fun facts about you. So my first question is that you know you've been an entertainer for much of your life. I know in several Broadway shows, including the book of Mormon, which is one of my absolute favorites and the one that I always say that Mark Zucker should never, ever, ever go see.

No, definitely but definitely not.

But what do you like to be entertained by? What do you do to get your own artistic fit?

Oh, that's such a good question. I oh the first thing that I the things that I love watching people make things. So I love shows. I mean, I love theater always, but I love sort of getting the inside look of so like any making reality shows, like RuPaul's Drag Race, live 4, because they're literally making stuff all. They're so creative all the time. Great British Bake Off absolutely Blown away. There was a glass blowing competition show that I love so like often it's like watching people make things I love I find deeply entertaining.

That's fantastic. Now if you could travel anywhere in the world like what's on your bucket list you haven't been able to get to yet.

I think the the like bucket list place I want to travel to and it's because of its seventh grade Spanish class is Iguazu Falls, which is in South America. I literally learned about it in seventh grade and have always wanted to go, and that's on. That's still on my bucket list.

Yeah, you know, my rest of my family have gone. I didn't get to go because we all went to Argentina to visit our old babysitter and I had to stay with the baby.

And Blanzar the baby loved Iguazu Falls.

They said it was absolutely mind blowing. But if you do go, luciana, our old babysitter was right near there and I'm sure she'd be happy to show you around. She is fabulous.

I'm going to look you up when we're ready to make those travel plans.

Lucy spoiled us for all babysitters, you know. When she went back to Argentina, we could never find anyone as good as her again.

Oh my gosh.

So, and then, what's the latest good book that you read, or the recent most? You know, not necessarily the latest, but the recent one that you read, yeah.

So this is for any business solopreneur people out there. I mean, this is little nerdy, deep cut, but Profit First. By Mike McHallowitz I. It changed the game for me in terms of how I look at my numbers, how I look at my budgeting, and it was literally a game changing book in terms of figuring out how to start my own business.

It's so interesting, you know. So what's the oh, what is the elevator pitch? Like one sentence summary of what his point is.

So it's a basically a way of accounting where you literally separate every dollar that comes in into four separate accounts your taxes, your profits, your owner's compensation and your operating expenses. And so you build out a sort of percentage and map it out so you can literally look at the health of your business every time you look at your bank account.

And I love that you can truly see how you're doing and where you need to shore up, where you need to fix things. It's a really smart way to just look at numbers and know like, oh, this was a slow month and it's not theoretical, it's literal in your bank account and I. It's been so helpful for me.

No, I have to check that out because that sounds like you know when I think about like bank accounts and you know I'm not a numbers person but I think that I could get my mind around new categories.

And I think that's why I liked it too, because I can get into a spreadsheet Don't, don't get twisted. I do love a spreadsheet I literally have on my desk Keep calm, I have a spreadsheet for that from a parent who was very happy with some of the spreadsheets I gave. But I think, because it's such a snapshot, it's such an easy way to digest the information that you you make, you thereby make good business choices because of that constant flow of information. That's fantastic.

Well, you have just been chock full of great advice, knowledge, wisdom and wit. It's been such a pleasure having you here on the podcast.

Oh, this has been a delight. Thank you so much for having me. I love, I love this podcast. You guys are. You guys are doing great, great work.

Oh well, thank you, and I think you do share, you know, like this general motto of it's not where you go to college, it's what you do while you're there, and we were really interested in that in so many different ways, especially in the court of performance. It's no real official.

Yeah.

Great Well, thank you so much.

Thank you. Well, that was the interview. I just want to take this moment again to thank Dr Alisa Roth for organizing and recording this interview with me. I also certainly want to thank Mark Stucker and the entire team over at School Match for you, head over to their website, schoolmatch the number for the letter youcom or you can find their amazing podcast, which literally has so many other podcasts, so many experts and schools that you've never heard of. That you should hear about. It's a really wonderful resource that you should have in your back pocket. You can look that up anywhere podcasts are available your college bound kid podcast. They use the acronym YCBK a lot, so but either of those where you listen to podcasts and you should be good to go.

That's another interview episode of the Creative College Journey podcast. We hope this episode that featured an interview with me was beneficial to you and want to thank you all for taking time out of your busy day to listen. If you are in need of some encouragement, guidance and inspiration for your college journey and would like to work with Scott, don't hesitate to head to our website, wwwcreativecollegejourneycom to schedule a free, new obligation one hour consultation to find out the many ways the Creative College Journey can help you on your path. You can also find Scott Barnhart on Instagram at Scott Barnhart. If you enjoy the show, please rate and review us on Apple Podcast. It really does help others find us. And be sure to come back in the coming weeks for more discussions about Creative College admissions, lowering the temperature on the process and the many industry pathways and transferable skills that a creative education and life can offer. Don't forget it's not where you go to school, but how you go to school that counts. Thank you,